[Alex3917]

> You guys cloned a whole suite of products in a short period of time that cost millions of dollars.

At the risk of stating the obvious, the functionality isn't actually cloned, only the UI. The actual code powering Gmail probably dates back to the late 80s or early 90s and has had several hundred thousands of hours of work put into it. This is just a webpage that looks kind of similar.

I point this out only because I've seen people saying that software businesses don't have moats anymore because of this, which is taking away a completely false lesson.

[jonathanstrange]

Out of curiosity, would you explain what you mean by that? Google was founded in 1998 and writing a mail client isn't terribly complicated. Did they buy some code for Gmail from an older company? Is Gmail older than Google?

[wordpad]

A full featured mailed client is insanely complicated. If you think mail client is just smtp, you probably think word is just text with some styling and excel is just some cells and functions.

[appreciatorBus]

I’m sure, buried somewhere deep in Google systems, are vestiges of mail server code originally written in the 80s. But when people use the name Gmail, they are generally referring to the client facing web app, which does not have any such code.

[surajrmal]

If it exists, it's probably not at all related to Gmail or only used for testing. I don't think Google reuses a lot of third party code in its first party server software.

[HeWhoLurksLate]

https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/20pdf/18-956_d18f.pdf

I mean it has happened in other Google products...

[dboreham]

Even "just smtp" isn't trivial.

[pshirshov]

It is, or was at least. At the age of 13, I've created one for Windows. It was relatively widely used at the time.

[randall]

it is not. gmail is 100% from paul bucheit.

[Alex3917]

He wasn't sitting there writing binary code and implementing all 7 layers of the OSI stack by hand, he was was gluing together pre-existing components. And the pre-existing components he had access to include two major email startups acquired by Google in 2001 and 2003, which were founded in 1995 and 1997 respectively. (Although he does have at least two patents for features and algorithms he co-invented while making Gmail.)

[estebank]

If I invite you to a barbeque and tell you I made lunch, will you tell me off because I didn't raise and butcher the cow?

[toyg]

This is more like using a sauce that someone else made.

[Alex3917]

> Did they buy some code for Gmail from an older company?

They bought both Deja and Neotonic.

[esseph]

Gmail is not just a mail client.

[ape4]

The spam checker alone is an ton of work. It needs to handle millions of mails for millions of users a day.

[sgjohnson]

Nitpick: pretty sure both of those are in the billions.

Mails could even be in the trillions.

[bryanrasmussen]

I mean it is so obvious causing me to find the use of the phrase cloned so weird that I feel it needs to be said.

The UI cloning doesn't feel exactly correct either there are things that are slightly off.

But I just find the "cloned" wrong, because obviously you cannot send an email from this account, you cannot log in to the service as Jeffrey Epstein, you cannot delete emails, create alerts based on searches, do actions on selected emails (create new tag, move under that tag)

there are so many functionalities that are not cloned because obviously they could not be cloned because they would make no sense for what this project is. So just the praise for cloning so quickly makes me sort of mad.

You could theoretically make something like this that allowed log in so you got a personalized epstein mails, and then could do all that, and perhaps get more mails sent in as files get released, and perhaps create Google alerts on epstein in the news etc. that would come as mails and maybe the code could put news that came in, into the appropriate the tags etc.

But until that time "cloned" is just very wrong.

[DonHopkins]

For the holidays, they should at least implement a Shockingly Distasteful Jeffrey Epstein Christmas Card Meme Generator.

[a-dub]

> The actual code powering Gmail probably dates back to the late 80s or early 90s and has had several hundred thousands of hours of work put into it.

no. google did not exist until the late 90s.

various forms of internet email sure did, but most popular mtas of the google era shared very little code with predecessors from the 80s and early 90s (maybe sendmail) and google almost certainly wrote their own from scratch.

but your first point. that an archive browser that looks like gmail is not equivalent to a full tilt email service backend is valid.

[nntwozz]

Why stop there, I'm sure you can trace Gmail all the way back to the Roman aqueducts.

[ithkuil]

The Link Between a Horse's Arse and the Space Shuttle • Physics Forums https://share.google/UnmMwwQv9kyksKhkI

[freedomben]

I'm not a physicist, but after getting into the rotten fruit this fall, I would bet my friend's horse could launch a space shuttle from her arse. Such a sweet mare, but she has no hesitation blasting Venetian atmosphere right into your face while you're scraping the shit out of her feet. At least she has the decency to make eye contact while doing it

[ThePowerOfFuet]

Tracking-free link: https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/the-link-between-a-hor...

[AntiqueFig]

I mean technically if we didn't have Roman aqueducts, would we have Gmail today?

[bregma]

All right, but apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh water system, public health, and GMail what have the Romans ever done for us?

[DonHopkins]

All right, but apart from Google Wave, Google Reader, Google+, Inbox, Stadia, Project Ara, Google Glass, Loon, Picasa, Orkut, Hangouts, Allo, Duo, Google Domains, Google Health, Google Notebook, iGoogle, Knol, Jaiku, Daydream VR, Google Play Music, Nexus, Fusion Tables, Bump, Revolv, Songza, QuickOffice, Meebo, Panoramio, Milk, Schemer, Sparrow, Poly, Tilt Brush, Tour Builder, URL Shortener, Latitude, Spaces, Google Hire, Google Bulletin, Shoelace, and Neighbourly, Android Things, Project Tango, Ara Module Marketplace, Google TV, Nexus Q, Google Play Newsstand, Google Play Movies & TV, Google Podcasts, Google Now, Google Now Launcher, Google Goggles, Gesture Search, MyTracks, Google Play Edition, Android Auto for Phone Screens, All Access, Google Currents, Google SMS Search, Google Cloud Messaging, Android Beam, Androidify, Field Trip, Google Currents, and Google Play Artist Hub, what has Google ever done for us?

[LightBug1]

I'm a little out of the loop. Are any of those still active projects?

[DonHopkins]

Not a one. ;)

https://killedbygoogle.com/

[DonHopkins]

At least to the Black Death.

[Alex3917]

I mean the I would really only include the code for things like:

- Fetching email messages

- Parsing email headers

- Mime parsing

- Converting the text of email bodies into UTF-8

- Threading messages

- Eliding reply text

Given that the official story is that pb made the first version of Gmail in a day, does anyone actually believe that he wrote the code for any of those things in a day? If you honestly believe that I have a bridge to sell you.

Wait till you learn that the source code in Chrome also predates the existence of Google.

[113]

I don't know if I'm just misremembering but it feels like over the last three years or so the technical knowledge on HN has gone down the toilet.

[zahlman]

Could it instead be that less technically inclined people feel more empowered to hang out here?

[DrewADesign]

Maybe that and manipulating technical tools requires far less background knowledge than it did, meaning the definition of “technically inclined” has shifted, as it often does.

[g947o]

"less technically inclined" doesn't mean people can make whatever incorrect claims unchecked like on reddit, where you get banned because you post inconvenient facts in the wrong sub.

And this is exactly why I stopped participating in discussions on reddit and never on LinkedIn. Discussions on HN are so much civil and respectful here

P.S. if the top level comment was indeed posted by a "less technically inclined" person, I hope this is a humbling, positive educational experience, at least that's how I would take it

[sheepscreek]

Most *nix tools have their origins in the ‘70s-80s.

Email as a technology is ancient by today’s standards. SMTP protocol got established in 1982. Even sendmail dates as far back as the ‘70s.

[Alex3917]

This is a pretty good talk on the history of email: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrGfahzt-4Q

[doctorpangloss]

https://archive.nytimes.com/opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/20...

Another great article

[deathslocus]

And the earlier technology of homing pigeons goes back even further

[inquirerGeneral]

It's Reddit type conversation often