[monero-xmr]

I would just be careful to discount the capitalist West. You’d have to be blind to ignore the massive overbuilding of property in China, which they are now demolishing. All of that wasted capital. Authoritarian regimes with controlled media always seem successful… until it doesn’t. Up until the USSR collapsed there were many prominent people in the West saying it was the superior system. The market test - meaning floating prices and the response to them - is a superior way of allocating capital. We need to see how all of this plays out

[literallywho]

I swear I've been reading about overbuilding in China since, like, 2012. And I've definitely used it in arguments myself. Not only China hasn't collapsed, but it has improved massively since then, as far as I can tell.

[kube-system]

The US also had a period of time in which their government directed large construction projects, and they too were particularly prosperous in the time afterwards.

[vkou]

> You’d have to be blind to ignore the massive overbuilding of property in China, which they are now demolishing.

Is it all being demolished, or is 95% of it being moved into?

Because all those ghost cities that China was building that the news kept bitching about... Are now all full.

Meanwhile, in the West, we have a housing shortage. Who looks the fool now...

[reeredfdfdf]

Yep, it's way better to overbuild than underbuild. Lack of houses for young people looking to start families / move in for better jobs has big negative societal impacts that we're only starting to see.

[expedition32]

In the 60s and 70s European countries were giant construction yards. It gave many people jobs and we still enjoy the infrastructure today!

[palmotea]

> I would just be careful to discount the capitalist West.

I would. It's showing the weaknesses and limitations of its ideology.

> You’d have to be blind to ignore the massive overbuilding of property in China, which they are now demolishing. All of that wasted capital.

So what?

> Authoritarian regimes with controlled media always seem successful… Up until the USSR collapsed there were many prominent people in the West saying it was the superior system.

The West is literally de-industrializing and can't seem to built shit except slowly and expensively. Industry after industry gets hollowed out as China takes the lead.

Do not make the mistake of reasoning about US vs China from the experience of US vs USSR. China doesn't have a command economy, outproduces the US, and controls many key industries. The US is resting on its laurels, and its people cope by thinking of the few industries where it's still ahead, but those are dwindling.

> The market test - meaning floating prices and the response to them - is a superior way of allocating capital.

That's not truth, it's a dogmatic assumption.

China has been able to exploit a dogmatic belief in the free market to siphon the real capital out of the West and into itself (industry and know-how) in order to achieve dominance. The US elite is content to have paper. We'll see how that works out.

> We need to see how all of this plays out

If you're rooting for China. If you're rooting for the US, by then it will be too late to course correct.

[csomar]

> You’d have to be blind to ignore the massive overbuilding of property in China

Isn't the same now happening with the US with the massive overbuilding of AI capacity? Seems like a tightly centralized capitalist system is not that different from a communist one.

[Betelgeux]

Or rather thinking one step forward the question arises, whether we use the right words for the right things? Does the capitalist West has any defining economics characteristics of a liberal free-market capitalism at all?

Private ownership of means of production: On an atomic, legal level of course. But if point at an NVIDIA based compute rack at a US based random datacenter, can someone tell me actually who owns it? I am interested in the actual natural person who has an ownership share of this capital asset, not the myriads of layers of corporate and financial networks of equity delegations through investment banks, but the actual owner?

Profit oriented: Of course, it is said so. But do really companies, entrepreneurs do things to maximize the profits of the actual owners, shareholders? Are the executives and boards really that keen on putting forward the interest - of the previously referenced unknown - actual owner of the capital assets?

Free market based: This has also multiple sub-characteristics, but most importantly something about competition, or rather the lack of collusion and that economic actors (including consumers, (natural person) investors) are all fully informed. How much is this true in the West?

I think we are very much lost in labels.