[strawhatguy]

Article says the next F-150 Lightning will be an EREV-style plugin hybrid. Which, if so, makes a lot of sense. EVs are great, but not so much for trucks.

I was always bothered about how cars were either supposed to be all electric or all ICE. Working together is the smart way forward.

[m4ck_]

I wonder if it's hybrid electric is super old tech and manufacturers can't have a monopoly on it or something?

Hybrids have been powering heavy industry and locomotives for the past 100 years or so, it seems like a perfect first step towards mass electrification of vehicles. Plus I imagine it'd be possible to swap the engine for more batteries as that tech improves.

[strawhatguy]

Edison Motors up in Canada is interesting, in the truck space.

Diesel EREV semis, and heavy-duty pickup modifications. Sounds like they're running into overregulation issues though.

This is how China gets ahead, because the West is dumb and thinks regulation helps. They've already dominated drones (since it's effectively illegal if not actually illegal in the States to make them), seems the same will happen with EVs.

[dalyons]

Remains to be seen if it’s smart - personally I think erev is going to be obsoleted very quickly by batteries getting better and cheaper. You can already buy 1000v 5min charging EVs in china, as well as semi-solid state batteries. And the batteries get cheaper year on year, relentlessly.

EREVs are a way better idea than the lie of PHEVs, but their time in the market is still limited. I wouldn’t be making that bet as an auto manufacturer , unless I had protectionism to hide behind.

[NetMageSCW]

PHEVs aren’t a lie, but the economics need to be compelling for people to plug in. If my car was a PHEV (it would weigh too much) I would plug it in to save over gas for weekly commutes, but I pay for premium gas.

[dalyons]

i mean, they are a lie as they exist today. They were sold as low emissions vehicles (and in the EU this lets them avoid a bunch of regulations!) but real world data shows they have negligible emissions impact. Just because people _could_ use them differently if things were different, doesnt matter, people dont.

[strawhatguy]

EVs, as part of the world economy, aren't emissions-free either. Just at the tailpipe (or lack thereof). Rare-earth mining is very energy-intensive.

[dalyons]

This old talking point? Studies show that EVs break even with ICE cars for total lifecycle emission in the first 1-2 years, or 15-30kkm.

[strawhatguy]

Every 5 years, there's a better battery in development 5 years hence. So I'm a bit skeptical that just a better battery would exclude hybrids. Any battery improvement would improve PHEV and EREV vehicles also, and they'd retain their advantage over straight EVs in range.

The advantages of these hybrids is a) using multiple fuels - has all of the main 80%-of-trips-local on electric range advantage of EVs, combined with an extended range of gas (and those gas engines run at optimum rpm, so they're more efficient too) and b) easier on the battery supply chain; they don't need as large batteries; batteries have more uses than just EVs, making all such products cheaper, including EREVs

The real disadvantage is the higher complexity, although EREVs do still get rid of the transmission gearing and other driveline components.

And of course, EREVs are probably the only solution for trucks and off-road vehicles. Edison Motors's diesel EREV for full trucks seems way more promising than Tesla's Semi (if Canada could stop over-regulating their startups, that is).

[dalyons]

If batteries get cheap enough, the fixed extra cost for the complexity of the additional ER system will become prohibitive & uncompetitive. Who wants to pay extra for a car with >1000ml range? Almost no-one, it’s unnecessary for 99.9% of people. We know this because almost no cars have massive or dual gas tanks.

Short to medium haul trucks are already being replaced by EVs in china, Europe is next. I agree about long haul US distances though, it will be quite some years before they can go full ev, the physics is hard.

[xgulfie]

Chevy Volt my beloved

[rootusrootus]

Which wasn't actually an EREV. They wanted it to be, but it was more efficient not to.

[klardotsh]

BMW i3 is a true EREV and I absolutely love it. Always drives like an electric, but can pound highway miles on gas. Best of both worlds. I hope to never go back to pure one or the other, until battery and/or charging tech leaps forward a ton.

[NetMageSCW]

How fast can you go on the highway running the REx?

[klardotsh]

The REx hold up for about 60-65mph on flat ground without climate control. Change those parameters and you’ll still eat battery, just less of it. In the NA config of the car where the REx only comes on at 7% battery, this is a critical failing, but OBD coding the car to enable on-demand REx at any point below 75% (and then hold state of charge) transforms it into a whole new beast that’s extremely road trip capable.