[esseph]

X11 has been replaced by Wayland as the default on the vast majority of workstations. Servers wouldn't have it anyway.

It's "gone" for roughly 80% of the people using Linux on the desktop.

(It's often still installable, it's just no longer the default and has been marked as deprecated / unmaintained.)

[chasil]

I am using OpenBSD on an x86-64 desktop, and X is still very much the supported graphics environment.

That said, there is interest in Wayland in these circles.

https://www.openbsd.org/papers/eurobsdcon2023-matthieu-wayla...

[0x457]

Supported by whom? Xorg, the server, no longer maintained. Also, OpenBSD users already a tiny fraction of users...if every single OpenBSD desktop switches to Linux and Wayland, not a single metric will change significantly.

[chasil]

OpenBSD also maintains OpenSSH, which has enormous market penetration.

Their ssh supports the -X and -Y options to run remote X applications.

Let me know when those go Wayland-specific and are able to encompass the new protocol.

Until then, get comfortable in a small and discardable minority.

[Conan_Kudo]

The `-X` and `-Y` options were a mistake to integrate into `ssh(1)`, it makes an assumption that everybody uses an Athena/X11 type system. That said, you can combine waypipe with ssh to do the same thing (ie. `waypipe ssh` will give you the same effect as `ssh -X`).

[chasil]

Until those options are integrated into OpenSSH itself, Wayland remains in the minority.

[esseph]

I'm not sure this statement makes any sense.

[0x457]

> Their ssh supports the -X and -Y options to run remote X applications.

Cool, I remember using it in 2003 a few times. I highly doubt many people going to miss if those were gone. I would not be surprised if the majority of ssh server installations disable x11 session forwarding.

> Until then, get comfortable in a small and discardable minority.

Are you sure you're not confusing Wayland users with OpenBSD users?

[bitwize]

OpenBSD maintains its own Xorg fork, called Xenocara.

[dvtkrlbs]

I mean the discussion is about Linux though no and even if we extend the umbrella with the BSD folks still I don't think wayland drops below %80

[amelius]

I often read the advice that if something does not work on Linux, then switch from Wayland to X11.

Also, 20% is quite a big userbase. What you are saying is like saying that Firefox is "gone" because "percentage".

Trust me, X11 is not gone.

(written from a browser that runs in a VNC session that uses the X11 protocol under the hood)

[bitwize]

X is deprecated. Its maintainers do not want to maintain it. They want you to use Wayland instead.

The major DEs have removed their X code paths, or will in the next year. The toolkits will follow suit. X is a dead end for new and non-legacy software.

[oblio]

It's a dead end that allows me to have HiDPI (aka a 4k display) on Ubuntu 24.04 and use the VMWare GUI and OnlyOffice.

Wayland was launched 18 years ago and it still can't handle mainstream apps in common scenarios.

[oblio]

Downvote all you want, I'm telling you what I see. I had to fall back to X...

[esseph]

"I often read the advice that if something does not work on Chrome in the US Govt, try IE6." - This was still true as of last year.

"Trust me, IE6 is not gone" - me

[bigstrat2003]

Are there hard numbers to back up the 80% thing? I don't know one way or the other, I'm just skeptical because I still have applications which don't work correctly under Wayland (Discord), and if I have such problems it wouldn't surprise me if others do too.

[esseph]

It's the default for most of the parent/child distros.

Wayland Only (default, installed):

* Fedora

* Ubuntu

* openSUSE

* Arch Linux

* Pop!_OS

Wayland (default)

* Debian

* SUSE

I use Discord on Wayland every day and have for at least 3 years. Both AMD 9060 and NVIDIA 4060 (and an AMD RX 580).

The distro you use can have a huge impact on your OOTB experience.

[tmtvl]

> * Arch Linux

Arch doesn't even install a kernel by default, in which possible way does it default to Wayland?

[esseph]

Oops! Sorry I was working in a sheet that had the variants listed and I must have shifted a cell!

Arch clearly doesn't have any "defaults" there. Manjaro is on X11.

SteamOS on Steam Deck does however use Wayland.

[m4rtink]

The waypipe toole comes quite close to X forwarding on Wayland. :-)