[makeitdouble]

How many general public appliance makers out there have a competitive production line outside of China ?

As I understand the only countries where one could barely pull that off would be Korea or Japan, and the local makers are mostly giving up as they lose too much on cost.

[rerx]

BSH (Bosch, Siemens, Neff brands) have their main production sites in Europe, a lot in Germany still. But of course China as well. https://www.bsh-group.com/about-bsh/bsh-worldwide/

Miele (at a more premium price point) production is even more concentrated in Germany. https://m.miele.com/en/com/production-sites-2157.htm

(Edit: No replies after 8 hours, but of course they then came in quickly after Europe woke up..)

[mlrtime]

These are competitive on quality, but are they on price and scale?

How many US homes have a Bosch/Miele washer/dryer vs LG/Samsung? (Outside of NYC).

[okanat]

Germany has a strong preference with its local brands. It is still easier to find local repair shops that handle BSH and Miele machines than cheaper Asian brands.

You do pay premium for the quality. It is worth it though. My parents' Siemens Washer-Dryer combo is still strong after 15 years. A couple parts needed to be changed last year but after the replacement the machine works very well now.

[rerx]

Don't know about the US. From what I can tell Samsung and LG appliances are certainly less common in Europe than the European brands (there's also cheaper brands like Beko or Gorenje).

[makeitdouble]

Thanks !

On Miele, they sure seem to make a sizeable effort to keep as much as they can in Germany, including the motors, electronics etc.

They seem to expand vacuum cleaner factories in China as well, but it could be the best of both world with a company dedicated to push the local ecosystem as much as they can, and go beyond when absolutely needed.

[yorwba]

https://oec.world/en/profile/hs/domestic-vacuum-cleaners shows China, Malaysia, Vietnam and Mexico as having a significant trade surplus in domestic vacuum cleaners.

[pbmonster]

The German luxury brands have made the "made in Germany" shtick a core part of their marketing. So Miele, Gaggenau, Vorwerk, ect.

Bosch/Siemens are far larger than those, but they outsourced a lot. But even here, significant parts of the higher-end stuff is still made outside China.

[okanat]

I don't know about individual parts but all of my home appliances are BSH and they are all made in Germany. Some of them actually has the factory location in the nameplate.