[dkannan]

most of the PHP devs i know write raw PHP. they do not use a framework. one team built their own (4 years back). And NONE of them wrote tests. Actually i have never seen or heard any php dev writing and evangelizing tests

In ruby, mostly everyone i know, uses rails and mostly everyone writes some test. either TDD or after writing the code.

It is not as bad as PHP but personally even for me, i should write better rails code

[ericclemmons]

That's exactly the point I was making. Symfony developers are similar batch of developers like you see with Rails - writes tests, utilizes frameworks/components, very active in open-source.

Any developer, PHP or otherwise, that knowingly ignores contributions within the community is dangerous :)

No matter what language you use, you can always write better code, even with PHP!