[jitl]

We need a Framework-style company making TVs.

Get the OLED panels from whoever makes them wholesale, spend on a beautiful enclosure / design, add just enough software to calibrate the image and switch between HDMI inputs with HDMI-CEC. Sell a premium soundbar as an add-on instead of including speakers in the base device.

I think a brand like Sonos could make a killing in this market selling a premium dumb tv to high end customers.

Look at how much markup Samsung adds to their standard LCD panel for a decent enclosure - it’s like $600-$1000 markup to get the Frame tv, which has a mid panel, JUST because the enclosure is actually nice/inoffensive.

[3RTB297]

The hitch is that it would be more expensive, making it a "premium" product and limiting the market. Smart TV pricing typically includes subsidies based on the assumed data sales from each user over the lifetime of the device.

[jitl]

Yes I am suggesting a premium product, there’s at least $600-$1000 more the market is willing to pay just for aesthetics based on Samsung Frame tv, which is a premium product with mid-range LCD component quality. It’s priced about $200 underneath Samsung’s top of the line OLED

[542458]

I really doubt the user data for a smart tv user is all that valuable. Meta has infinitely more rich data and an entire tightly optimized ad system and is on a platform where people commonly make large purchases and makes around $10 per user per year.

[DaiPlusPlus]

> I really doubt the user data for a smart tv user is all that valuable.

According to a 2021 article about Vizio's user-hostile advert display devices, they boast of an average revenue of $13/yr - up from $7.30/yr, though consider this was 2020 when more people were at-home watching TV instead of going outside, meeting people, touching grass, the usual.

https://deadline.com/2021/03/vizio-smart-tv-streaming-ipo-12...

> A range of advertising opportunities drive revenue, including revenue sharing with programmers and distribution partners as well as activations on the device home screen. In the fourth quarter of 2020, the company said average revenue per user on SmartCast was $12.99, up from $7.31 in the same period of 2019.

-------------

If you'll allow me to make an arbitrary assumption that a new TV set bought today will last about 10 years, then $13/yr means the advertising revenue implies Vizio has reduced the sale-price of their TVs by $130 compared to before we had no-opt-out advertising displayed on our own property as a condition for the privilege of using said device.

[strstr]

How much are my eyeballs worth over the lifetime of a TV?

In the race to the bottom, ads will outcompete others by pushing price lower. But how much lower?

[ivan_gammel]

We need Framework-style company making local/owner-first everything, including fridges and washing machines today. There’s no guarantee that your next coffee machine or teapot won’t come with AI talking to you.

[shermantanktop]

It would not be cheap. All that ad crap represents revenue, and all those features represent sales volume for feature-conscious customers. Without volume you don’t have supplier leverage on pricing, or the ability to get onto big box store shelves, reducing volume further.

[ninkendo]

I for one would be willing to pay a premium for what GP described. I’d honestly pay twice as much for a TV with working HDMI CEC, some simple picture adjustment controls, and a really really good panel. Nothing else, please.

[cgbeeng]

What I want is simply a well-made monitor with a single HDMI input and built-in speakers. Make it as flat as you want.

The rest is almost unnecessary in this day and age.

If everyone were to do this, it would open a bigger market for a well-made upgradable combo smart device and air TV tuner that the TV manufacturers could produce if they wanted to.

[al_borland]

I’d like this as well, except I think more than one HDMI port would be useful, for something like a game console. Maybe the screen itself could have 1 to keep it simple, with an optional HDMI switch that could integrate cleanly.

[BizarroLand]

I think it wouldn't be very expensive to make a TV frame platform that could have user-installable screens and a simple power/display module.

Probably wouldn't be too much more than the default cost of a TV to sell the screens, and users could select what technology they are willing to pay for, LED, QD, MiniLED, OLED, etc.

The problem comes from things like upscaling, color tuning, refresh rates and resolution handling. That would require a custom compute module, and the module would need data on the attached screen that the screen itself cannot likely provide.

If you had access to a TV manufacturer who would be willing to work with you to create this platform, you might be able to start shipping TVs for only a few million dollars, but you need the money and the connections to make it happen.

I imagine you would need to go to Shenzhen, find a manufacturer, talk them into working with you, put a lot of money down upfront, and then hire programmers and UX designers and hardware designers to craft the perfect TV, design a unique TV brain module and have it manufactured, standardize the system so that other manufacturers can get in on the platform, make thousands of extra parts, and then hire a marketing team to let purchasers around the world know of the new product, pay for UL certification, standardize some sort of testing system so the panels can be calibrated to the brain...

It's a lot.

Although, now that I think about it, the calibration could be done with a set top camera system like the one used by those companies that sell RGB LED systems for TV backlighting, so if that were bundled in by default then it would do a lot to simplify the calibration and add a cool standout feature to the TV.

These TVs would be pricey to start with, like Sony Bravia pricey, so you're never going to move a lot of product. And you'll have to deal with tariffs, pushback from TV manufacturers, cheapskates, rude customers, and the risk that if you start to approach success then some other TV manufacturers with deep pockets might use their brand name power to make a competitor to blow you out of the water for a few years until your company goes bankrupt and then stop competing with you.

The only way to prevent that would be to open-source the entire platform, and even then you would be in a constant dogfight just to stay alive.

Despite all of that I say go for it. If you can deliver a 65" OLED Open Source TV with customizable inputs for under $3,000 then assuming I'm not financially worse off than I am right now then I'll buy one.

[scosman]

Sonos is a software company with a history of pushing bad updates. But Framework sounds great.

[IneffablePigeon]

I too am irritated by their software but they do make nice hardware. I’d have their headphones if I trusted their software, the hardware is perfect IMO. Open and upgradable is not really their forte though.

[jokowueu]

Wouldn't not connecting it online and using a google tv box fix this issue ?

[jitl]

I’ve used some of my friends more recent year TVs and even if they’re not networked the UX is just horrible. One Samsung model eliminated the “input” button on the remote and forces you to go through “Home” to select inputs in a tiled menu festooned with quick tips and baked in ads for Samsung stuff like SmartThings. The worst part is that if it detects an input is connected to a game console, then it moves that input to the Gaming tab, which is chock full of tiles for shit like Solitare, Samsung game store, etc. WTF.

It’s like every interaction is viewed as an opportunity to sell attention or get you to mis-click on an ad.

[amelius]

We really need laws against products that are still tied to the vendor after you buy them.

If a product needs to be tied to the vendor, it is a service and it should not be sold as a product.

[bluefirebrand]

The problem is that every business seems to be run by fuckheads who would respond to this by changing their business model to "Televisions as a Service"

Every TV would become a rental instead of a product you can buy

Maybe I'm cynical, but I don't see any way to be optimistic anymore. Every company now seems to behave like landlords instead of producers

[amelius]

Yes, but if it is "TVs as a service" then it completely changes the game. We can force them to replace the TV when it dies. Or make them take the TV back when we stop the service. Repairability would be their problem, not ours.

This could arguably be a win for the environment.

Of course, many people would still want to own their products, so that would be a market opportunity then.

[bluefirebrand]

Only on this fucking website would I say something as full of shit as "TV as a service" and find some asshole thinking it sounds like a great idea

I give up. Go fuck yourselves Hacker News I'm done with this anti-human hellhole

[jitl]

It’s not just TVs, General Motors wants to be a “service” too removing connectivity like CarPlay/Android auto to force you to use a car App Store, and BMW with their subscription heated seats. Recurring revenue at all costs!!

[0cf8612b2e1e]

One thing you could try is to get a third party remote. The input switching functionality may still exist and be reachable. At least, it worked for mine.

[afavour]

FWIW I do this with a TCL Roku TV and it’s fine. Not great, I still see the Roku interface for ~2secs on startup but otherwise it’s out of my way.

[varispeed]

We need regulators that look after interests of tax payers and not after who pays for regulator's yachts.

[jitl]

Well I’m not sure if you can regulate having good design and user experience. Certainly the ability to roll back updates and enforcing privacy though.

[varispeed]

It is simple. Let user remove any unwanted software and don't install anything new (as in new apps), without user consent.

[bluefirebrand]

Yeah, it seems simple

Then companies start quibbling over what software is required for the system to function, so much that the courts give up trying to fight them

[ndriscoll]

Simple: Anything required for the hardware to function must be open source and user replaceable (no signed firmware, or at least a way to turn off signatures or load your own keys).

[jitl]

the “software” is a single unit, the whole TV OS. I don’t think any vendor considers the homescreen of the OS a removable app besides perhaps Android. Certainly not Samsung lol.

[wdr1]

Can't you already just get an HDMI monitor, speakers & a raspberry pi?

[jitl]

if you know a vendor making great 55”-75” OLED 160hz+ 4K monitors let me know!

[wdr1]

https://www.pcmag.com/reviews/alienware-55-oled-gaming-monit...

[snvzz]

>and switch between HDMI inputs with HDMI-CEC.

And please include DisplayPort inputs.

[pontus]

I would buy this in a heartbeat. I am profoundly bothered by the slop software that is on every TV these days. I keep joking that as tech invades more and more corners of our lives, we will at some point in the future be helping our parents with their couches by saying "Have you tried restarting your couch?"

Don't get me wrong, tech is great when it's a value-add, but TV tech has gotten out of control.

[boredatoms]

Maybe framework will pivot given RAM prices these days