[firefoxd]

I know this will sound a bit cynical, but I've stopped putting too much care into my employer's product. I'll deliver work and perform my best, but I'm not killing myself over it.

I've built viable products where I poured my soul into it just for it to be tossed aside [0]. I've optimized processes that went from 12 hours job to 17 minutes, I was fired shortly after [1]. I even wrote on HN to get advice when I felt I cared more about my work and colleagues [2]. Instead, my boss was promoted and I was scrutinized.

So when I work with a boss that doesn't care and is mostly performative, unless we are building a product that makes the world a better place, I don't put too much heart into it. I make sure they pay me for my time, and I look for a better job.

[0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42806948

[1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38456429

[2]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21766903

[everdrive]

>I even wrote on HN to get advice when I felt I cared more about my work and colleagues [2]. Instead, my boss was promoted and I was scrutinized.

In a lot of cases, "caring too much" is itself seen as a problem because the boss explicitly just wants you to implement the thing that benefits him. He doesn't really want to hear that its not going to work well and there are better alternatives.

If you really don't care you might voice a quiet objection and then just implement the garbage your boss asked for. If you do care "too much," then you might just be a thorn in your boss' side. Remember, he ultimately doesn't care if the product works. He cares if he can claim success. You're not helping him claim success, so you're a problem.

[Aurornis]

> In a lot of cases, "caring too much" is itself seen as a problem because the boss explicitly just wants you to implement the thing that benefits him. He doesn't really want to hear that its not going to work well and there are better alternatives.

I've been the manager on the other side of a lot of situations that could be described like this. In many cases, it was hard to explain to the person that there were dozens and dozens of inputs that go into my decision making, including a lot of invisible factors and relationships that I was juggling.

It's hard to communicate to someone who sees a very thin slice of the company and wants to disagree and do something different to appeal to their perspective. A lot of the time I knew very clearly that we weren't picking the "best" alternative, but after hearing everyone out and weighing the tradeoffs a decision was made.

> Remember, he ultimately doesn't care if the product works. He cares if he can claim success. You're not helping him claim success, so you're a problem.

HN comments are wildly cynical. People who consume a lot of this cynicism think they're getting a leg up on the workplace by seeing the world for how it really is, but in my experience becoming the uber-cynic who believes all bosses are intentionally destroying the product with bad decisions to claim success (how does that even work?) is the kind of thinking that leads people into self-sabotaging hatred of all bosses. You need to watch out for yourself, but adopting this level of cynicism doesn't lead to good outcomes. Treat it case by case and be open to the idea that you might not have all the information.

[everdrive]

>I've been the manager on the other side of a lot of situations that could be described like this. In many cases, it was hard to explain to the person that there were dozens and dozens of inputs that go into my decision making, including a lot of invisible factors and relationships that I was juggling.

I think this is also a really important counterpoint -- sometimes the person who "cares too much" is simply wrong, and is causing problems that should be avoidable. In other words, without more details it's hard to know if it's the manager or the direct report who is really the problem here.

[bojan]

> It's hard to communicate to someone who sees a very thin slice of the company and wants to disagree and do something different to appeal to their perspective. A lot of the time I knew very clearly that we weren't picking the "best" alternative, but after hearing everyone out and weighing the tradeoffs a decision was made.

You're saying it's hard to communicate that, but you've just done it really well. If you were to tell me a bit about those trade offs so I can also consider them the next time, I'd be a perfectly happy camper even if my idea isn't being picked up.

[everdrive]

I'll answer for him -- even if he does a great job communicating it, not everyone does a great job receiving it. It's just like honesty: it really takes two and if someone is intransigent enough even the best of us cannot penetrate.

[abroszka33]

> If you really don't care you might voice a quiet objection and then just implement the garbage your boss asked for.

This works in theory, but the problem is that some jobs are complex and require thinking. These jobs will attract people who do not like to be a slaves. They want to enjoy their work, do something good and feel good while doing it. The slave like job mentality you mention has severe limitations on what it can achieve.

[mordae]

Nah, you'll get yelled at if bosses solution you have implemented brings further trouble. Mostly for not fixing it for them.

[lentil_soup]

I agree with you, but lately, given the state of my industry and my personal situation I've started to fear that my company is just going to burn if we don't succeed and I need to do as much as possible to prevent that as finding a similar role is going to be pretty damn hard, I also don't have the leverage I used to have a few years ago to just change jobs. All of that has lead me to break my back and confront my boss which is extremely uncomfortable and pushing me closer to burnout. Unsure what my point is other than I wish I had the space to not care

[Aurornis]

> but I've stopped putting too much care into my employer's product. I'll deliver work and perform my best

How did we get to the point where "deliver work and perform my best" is equivalent to not caring?

Delivering work with reasonably good effort and quality is the baseline expectation. If your version of not caring too much is "perform my best" then I think this is a problem of miscalibrated expectations of the workplace.

The majority of people in the world go into their jobs, try to get their work done with reasonable quality, and go home.

[strangattractor]

Let's face it. Working for other people sucks. They set the agenda. They make the decisions. Often those decisions and agendas will not be what you think is best. It maybe the case that you are correct. Go start your own thing and run it how you see fit.

Now if you want to see what a really "caring boss" is like watch this video of former employees of Musk. The real interesting thing is some of them seem to like the humiliation, lack of boundaries and over work. Similar to what groups of soldiers feel after serving in a war together and returning with PTSD. Hope the money was worth it. Personally I would avoid it but to each his own.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvDt0lByxJA

[nosianu]

> Working for other people sucks.

Depends.

I worked and even had a business with and/or worked for three people that I've known for a long time. And had loud substantial disagreements with - before going into business. Worked like a charm every single time. The personal side I mean, business was neutral once, a complete failure but I only wanted the paycheck anyway once, and a resounding success in a traditional business where I handle only IT right now.

In the first venture I found out I hated selling and business. Sure, I can do it, but I really really don't want to. I am a minimalist, and I might have become a poor monk in a monastery a thousand years ago. I don't want to sell anyone anything. So in the next two businesses I left all the business stuff to others, and it is sooo much better.

And now that I'm in a non-IT traditional business I'm a servant 100%. And it is nice. My main focus is non IT stuff, and I use computers to achieve that. Finding differences in thousands of EDI messages for invoices, order confirmations and deliveries, for example. HOW - who cares? I am not developing a product. If it's a one-off I may just run some command line tools. Or, shocking!, I actually use Excel. Or I ask ChatGPT for a little helper Python script to run over the raw data files.

Doing servant work without business responsibilities is really nice :) My boss may have the bigger house and car, so what? He also has exponentially more stress (I have pretty much zero). In my youth I may have had a different opinion, but now I don't want his stress level for any amount of compensation. And no, future early retirement by making lots of money now does not change the equation. I don't want to retire at all anyway, keep doing business stuff on the side at least. Without the stress it's no problem! One of my direct colleagues is way past retirement age...

[strangattractor]

It's true there is no silver bullet. I did contract work after 2000 dot bomb. I enjoyed working for myself.

The thing I liked most is that when my clients would ask me to do things - I would often propose things more reliable and less time to implement solutions. They would then opt for the less optimal thing sometimes for good reasons. If I was an exempt employee that would have meant me spending my personal time on the extra work to meet deadlines. The contractor me would bill them for the hours:)

[keybored]

> I know this will sound a bit cynical, but I've stopped putting too much care into my employer's product. I'll deliver work and perform my best, but I'm not killing myself over it.

To say (yes, with some moderation because it’s hyperbole) that you won’t kill yourself of your boss making a buck needs to be preempted with a “watch out, cynical-sounding opinion” incoming.

Oh wait. I forgot what this website is behind all the quirky/nerdy/hacker submissions.