[graemep]

I think kids born now will inherit a much better world than in the past.

What sort of world did a child born in Europe in 1900 or 1930 inherit? What about a black child born in the US in 1950, or South Africa in 1960? What about a child born in China in 1950 or (what is now) Bangladesh in 1960 or Sri Lanka in 1970? Their children and grand children will have a much better life.

[dachworker]

My grandparents were all born in Europe between the two world wars. Actually, despite humble origins they all had a fairly prosperous life. Even though I have much more education than they did, I don't think I can ever achieve the same level of prosperity as they had.

Like, I certainly cannot afford a family of 12 children. Nor can I afford to buy the amount of land that they acquired, and certainly not by working the same kind of jobs they did.

[eudamoniac]

The poorest people have the most children, and they are not starving; they're usually obese. What has changed is that your definition of "afford children" has come to encompass a vast amount of requirements that your grandparents did not have.

[iamnothere]

And if you don’t provide those requirements, you risk jail time and/or having the kids removed from your care.

[eudamoniac]

Not really. The only expense that could lead to that is child care, so I'll assume you mean leaving preteens home alone as a nosy neighbor calls CPS. First of all that doesn't really happen and it's national news when it does. Second of all at least a few states have passed laws enshrining children's freedom.

But usually the "requirements" that get parents to spend too much money are entirely optional things, of which a few are college tuition, a car for the child, camps, tutors, music lessons, vacations abroad, innumerable toys, iPads, etc etc

[iamnothere]

This is not what average people are talking about when they say it’s unaffordable. Top 10% of incomes, sure.

The median household income is under $80k, while median yearly housing cost is around $25k, food expenses for a family of 4 are $12k-$19k, median utility costs around $4k, health insurance $27k (about to go up), and median cost of vehicle ownership is $12k. Yearly figures. That’s sharing one car between both working parents and we’re using median numbers here, and the median person doesn’t live in a place with great public transit options. Already that leaves almost nothing to deal with emergencies, saving in case a parent loses their job, and miscellaneous expenses like school books/supplies and clothing. And perhaps contributing to elder care for 1-4 grandparents.

Also, this is just the median; people in the lower 50% are much worse off, except for those poor enough to receive substantial aid. And don’t forget that young people typically have lower incomes.

You really don’t want half of your society to decide that pets are cheaper, unless you want to end up with an inverted population pyramid and eventual collapse, or unlimited migration to replace lost workers (which creates its own problems).

[eudamoniac]

But children don't add much marginal cost to those figures, except insurance. Housing stays the same (no you don't need a bigger house), food goes up slightly (12-19k for 4 people is absurdly luxurious), utilities barely increase, you don't buy them a car, clothing can be had at goodwill or handed down, etc etc. I think maybe you don't understand what little the median family had materially in 1940. They were not buying their six kids clothes from Gap or going out to eat even monthly. They were in very small homes with very cheap clothes and the wife cooked every meal from plain cheap ingredients. They didn't have phone plans or Internet bills or take 20 minute showers.