[bulbar]

At least in Germany they are legal in general, only highly regulated.

Most guns are owned by relatively few people. Nobody from the common crowd here thinks about owning fire arms, virtually nobody does. Maybe that's a cultural gap hard to imagine from an US perspective.

The question remains, against what and who are you even defending? Maybe it's different in Europe because it's densely populated, but people generally don't consider fire arms being a net plus to the security of themselves and that of their family.

It also just doesn't seem useful to move to a state with loose fire arms laws - it's much better to move to a state/city/neighborhood with low crime rate instead.

[mothballed]

It's still within living memory of some Germans of their own government systematically mass murdering them after blocking their escape.

[bulbar]

I have never heard anybody claim that a higher availability of fire arms for civilians would have helped.

Fire arms is the very last measure you want to rely on when a highly militarized police force is prepared to deport you and your family.

[mothballed]

I've repeated it several times in this thread, but it absolutely helped those in the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising gain hours to days, and a couple women who had their lives spared because the Nazi or Nazi-allied officers decided at least a couple of jews (see woman on right here for example[]) were humans with bravery rather than just more carbon for the incinerator.

Although I'll grant you, that took place in Poland, but it happened largely due to the German government.

[] https://1943.pl/en/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/05/Kobiet...

[bulbar]

Sounds like a desperate suicidal operation and fits perfectly to what I wrote: that fire arms are the last measure you want to rely on.

[mothballed]

Yes the last option, like a fire extinguisher or seat belt. It doesn't become useful until the very last moment, but you'd give the world to have only have learned how to use one when days were better, and also to not be trying to buy one at at time where everyone's house is already on fire.

[bulbar]

In your example, virtually everybody died, even with fire arms.

So I still wonder against what / who you are really defending.

Needing a seat belt is much more likely than needing a fire arms, at least in Europe. Focusing on fire arms means focusing on the wrog things. It's about a feeling of security, not actual security. To use your wording: You'd give the world to have focussed on something else instead of buying a fire arm.