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> The ability to manipulate compile-time so effortlessly is a new dimension of programming. This new dimension enables you to write fundamentally better code that you’ll never be able to achieve in a lower dimension.

Show me. Specifically, material outcomes that I will care about.

[geocar]

What do you care about?

There are quite a few programmers who say lisp led to early retirement. That was a pretty interesting idea to me. I like going to the beach a lot.

I am not so sure about people who don’t want to get done: if you like doing what the ticket says instead of the other way around lisp probably isn’t going to be something you’re interested in.

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"Lisp makes people rich, and I love being rich. Using Lisp actually can't help but make you rich. But I can't actually provide any examples of that happening or how they might translate to anyone else. Get so rich with Lisp. Lisp."

Show me!

[geocar]

I think you probably misunderstood me.

You can use a better tool than someone who is using a worse tool, and take their customers, because it will be easier to solve the problems better and faster than that someone-else. Lisp is a great tool, but it doesn't help you if you're the tool: You still need someone with a problem who can pay for a solution, and they need to like you enough to pay you for that solution. If you need to hire 30 people to figure that out, Lisp isn't going to help with that problem.

And it's not fast: Lisp is not a get-rich-quick scheme, it's a tool that you can learn how to use to make other tools, it's a tool that is difficult enough to use that you will need perhaps years of experiences in order to use effectively, it's a tool so advanced it might seem like actual wizarding magic just watching someone screencast if you don't know what you're looking at, but it's still just a tool.

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I am literally asking you to show me what you are talking about.

Who retired early? What did they make with Lisp? Do you have a link to that thing they made? Was it actually something special about Lisp or did they just happen to use Lisp while making something that could have just been as easily - or more easily - done with something else? Is that real-world, specific, material outcome replicable by other people and they should know about it?

[geocar]

> I am literally asking you to show me what you are talking about.

Do you see these things -> ? <- Those are question marks.

Now go look back at your last comment and tell me how many of them you see.

> Was it actually something special about Lisp or did they just happen to use Lisp while making something that could have just been as easily - or more easily - done with something else?

I don't know. Why are you asking me this?

Please read my comments carefully, because I put time into trying to tell you something, but I am not trying to tell you what I think you think I am trying to tell you, and I am not going to justify my opinions to you any more than I would ask you to justify yours.

> and they should know about it?

I have mixed feelings about this: Who are the other people you are talking about?

There are a lot of people I won't work with; I won't trade with them; sell them my products; buy theirs; No contact if I can help it. That's why the first question I asked you is what is important to you? Did you even see my question?

[bccdee]

Serialization & deserialization, for instance. Macros are great for generating ser/de hooks automatically.

Thing is, other languages do this with metaprogramming or explicit codegen. Everyone needs metaprogramming sometimes—that's why everything supports it, actually.