[jasongill]

I met RMS at the Atlanta Linux Showcase in 1998. In the area with vendor booths in the lobby area of the show, he had laid down a blanket and was sitting in the middle with his legs crossed. He had printed copies of man pages printed and stapled together with covers laid out in front of him.

I walked up and introduced myself and said that I was a big fan, appreciated his hard work, etc. He looked at me coldly and just said "so are you going to buy something?" and motioned toward the booklets. I didn't need a printed copy of the `sed` man page so I shrugged and he seemed quite annoyed, turned to his assistant with a notebook computer and started dictating something to them, as almost to make it clear that our interaction was over.

I'm not sure what the point of posting this is, but that's my RMS story - it was my first "never meet your heroes" moment, I guess.

[jll29]

I met RMS at a lunch in his honor at an Edinburgh vegetarian restaurant with very high ranking scholars/academics present, after an invited talk of his. Everyone was talking, eating, drinking and having a good time, whereas he was sitting at the head of the table doing email on his ThinkPad (yes, in text mode).

So I walked up, I introduced myself and asked a question about the freedom of _data_ versus the freedom of _software_, and without looking up to me he said "I don't do smalltalk". So I got back to my seat and told my "story" to my immediate neighbors, who were keen to learn what he'd said.

(He is much more constructive by email.)

[smsm42]

I totally get it. If I were famous I probably would do that all the time (fortunately I am not). I don't hate people, I just don't need to always talk to them. Sometimes I just don't want to talk to people, especially ones I don't know. I'd rather... well, do anything else, but by myself. Sometimes I am OK to talk to other people, but it's my choice, not one of a random person. Email is much better because you can choose when you send the mail, when you read the mail, and you don't have to perform on demand (for an introvert, social interaction is hard work).

[kirubakaran]

Ha I finally got it once I realized it's not about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smalltalk

[prmoustache]

I am pretty sure his choice of words was a conscious decision to do the pun.

[PaulRobinson]

I put him up for the night on my sofa once.

When you do this, you get his "rider". Google it, it's real, it's infamous for the "don't buy me a parrot" section.

Anyway, in that, he makes clear that if people at dinner are not interested in talking about free software, he's going to pull out his laptop and get on with his work relating to free software.

He doesn't care about fancy food, drinks, etc. - he wants to raise money for free software, and work on free software. He did this in a restaurant when three others of us were chatting about something else, and we all just accepted that's what he does, and that's him. It was fine.

If you're not familiar with him or this, then it's going to be a weird experience.

He also struggles with social interactions in my limited experience, particularly when it's a "fan boy" interaction.

I've seen him not being super nice to other people who were trying to have a conversation with him, not because he's not a nice person (I found him quite personable one on one), but it seems to me that he struggles to know how to behave around people who don't know how to just talk to him about things he wants to talk about.

I once saw him in the audience of a conference with quite a notable set of speakers [0], and I can't remember who it was who he started hectoring in the Q&A (I mean, look at the speaker list, whoever it was, it's somebody you've probably heard of), but he just diverted it into a little lesson about free software for the speaker and everyone else listening. It's the only thing he cares about talking about. It's either a super-power focus, or really annoying. I personally think at this point you just either need to meet him where he is, or avoid him if you don't want to. He's not going to change.

I'm glad I met him, I'm glad he does what he does, I know he's a little spikier than others around him and I'm OK with that. I also know plenty of people who never want to speak to him ever again and think free software needs a new figurehead.

[0] https://curation.cs.manchester.ac.uk/Turing100/www.turing100...

[FireBeyond]

> I've seen him not being super nice to other people who were trying to have a conversation with him, not because he's not a nice person (I found him quite personable one on one), but it seems to me that he struggles to know how to behave around people who don't know how to just talk to him about things he wants to talk about.

I'd argue that while he may be nice, it's also generally considered impolite to be someone who "only talks to him about the things he wants to talk about". It's meant to be a two-way street, generally. Someone who only wants to talk about what -they- are interested in, not what their conversation partner is interested in is not being nice or polite.

[tomnipotent]

You don't owe random strangers your time, and it's so strange to me that people feel so entitled to other peoples time. Can also be argued that it's rude to engage a person on a topic they're not interested in.

[FireBeyond]

I do, to an extent, agree. But I also think it's impolite to have relationships where "we're going to talk about what I want to talk about, but when we go to talk about what you want to talk about I'm just going to pick up my laptop and ignore you or tell you I don't want to".

You could argue, in your description, the same about RMS - he might feel entitled to someone's time to talk about free software.

[tomnipotent]

There is no relationship if you're never going to see these people again. My time is my most precious resource, and I'm not obligated to give it away because someone thinks their initiation of a conversation needs to be reciprocated.

RMS set boundaries and that's perfectly reasonable.

[wussboy]

…

[smsm42]

> think free software needs a new figurehead.

It's not like politician's post, where random people can just decide to run for it. We don't really have many people that do what he does.

[epolanski]

I have met few famous devs and eventually it seems most turn like that.

One explained me that they are bombarded non-stop by people for years and years and at the end they'd rather be mean than "waste" their time on the rare chance of having a meaningful interaction.

The overwhelming majority of their interaction ends up with people asking them for opinions about their projects, collaborations, etc, and it gets so tiring that they statistically prefer to lose the chance of having a nice meaningful interaction rather than take the chance of yet another waste of time.

I know it's mean, but I get it.

Not saying they are all like that, just saying it's quite common among famous developers, they are bombarded non stop by people wanting to chat.

[andai]

Sounds like you stumped him ;)

[MonkeyClub]

> without looking up to me he said "I don't do smalltalk".

Duh, obviously, he only lisps. /s

[dotancohen]

For what it's worth, I've never met the guy but I wrote to him once regarding the image of free software that people who are selling unsupported LibreOffice CDs are causing.

He was willing to civilly discuss and listen to a different point of view. We never reached agreement, but I felt that so long as an interesting twist on something dear to him is being discussed, he is patient for discourse.

[agumonkey]

Could also be a different psychological path in person and through text. I know I behave much more anxiously irl and I might act colder than my personality can be.

[RealCodingOtaku]

Unsure why this is a reply to the OP, the only thing common is RMS and nothing else.

But, RMS is known to be socially awkward, the same goes for many autistic individuals. It's just that he doesn't mask and comes out as “rude”. If send an e-mail, he will usually take his time to write down a succinct response.

[tedggh]

I know a few autistic people including one of my nephews. They are different in some ways particularly when they are very young and are still struggling with expressing their emotions. But none of them are arrogant and disrespectful. I think you can be autistic and also a jerk, one doesn’t justify the other.

[dijit]

I'm going to be rude now, but I don't mean it to be taken that way.

"I know a guy with a leg missing, and he can still run, so clearly someone who has lost their legs is able".

I have had the discussion a bunch of times, I'm beginning to think that nobody other than me has spent a significant amount of time with severely autistic people.

Yes, some autistic people can mask quite well, and, some are mild cases.

But the crucial issue that most autistic people have is: they don't even become aware that they're being rude unless they spend active effort in first identifying, then understanding, then trying to fix it.

I'll tell you something else too: most people are uncomfortable with criticism, it makes them defensive and clam up. If you make someone defensive, enough times, then the situation becomes infected and very emotionally charged.

Now, imagine you have an illness that prevents you from processing your emotions properly, and the whole world is unkind to you, and you can't really understand why, but people call you rude.

It takes a lot of bravery and integrity to really reflect on that soberly.

Please, I implore you all to stop pretending you understand autism because you know someone- or a bunch of self diagnosed people, I keep seeing it[0], autistic people have great difficulty controlling how they're perceived, that's the whole issue.

[0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37200502

[FireBeyond]

> I'm beginning to think that nobody other than me has spent a significant amount of time with severely autistic people.

I'm going to say that your definition of "severely autistic" is actually mild to moderate at worst.

The definition of "severely autistic" I know of and have seen in personal experience (family) and in my career has nothing to do with "masking" and such.

It's being a late teenager who is effectively non-verbal, who wore diapers until age 12, who has an "anchoring dog", a 150lb Newfoundland that was trained from birth with audio recordings of him screaming or tantrums, that acts both as an emotional support, but as a literal anchor - tethered to him so that when, as many severely autistic people do, he starts to wander based on internal stimuli - the dog can just sit down and tense up and say "Not unless you plan on dragging a very large dog with you that is trained to stay still when it notices you walking away from your family".

Things along those lines.

> they don't even become aware that they're being rude unless they spend active effort in first identifying, then understanding, then trying to fix it.

This is demonstrably not RMS. He is quite aware of this, and quite openly states he has no intention of apologizing for it, let alone "fixing it".

[dijit]

The “severe” autism that I used to experience, at least the most severe that I experienced was non-verbal, sometimes with violent outbursts.

But of course there’s a whole range.

What concerns me though is that when I’m on the internet, people talk about autism like it’s a quirky character flaw that can be overridden with moderate effort.

Which feels criminally ignorant.

[TheTaytay]

Hasn’t the definition of autism in the DSM changed to the point of requiring only a single characteristic to be “technically” on the spectrum, whereas it used to require many more criteria? I think it’s literally “not what it used to be”.

It seems like a diagnosis that would benefit from more distinguishing words so as not to conflate people at different ends of that spectrum.

It must be infuriating or Bewildering to see someone knowingly nodding along saying, “oh yeah. I’m autistic too,” when other autistic people you know literally aren’t capable of doing that.

[KaiserPro]

> nobody other than me has spent a significant amount of time with severely autistic people.

Yes, most people have not met someone with more than mild autism.

I think the other issue is that people are confused as to _what_ autism is (it doesn't help that its a massive fucking spectrum) For most people, meeting a dutch grandmother for the first time would assume that they count as autistic.

I run a "uniformed organisation" for kids, and as we make sure that we take _all_ kids regardless of who they are, I bump into a large amount of interesting diagnosed and undiagnosed conditions. Currently I look after siblings, one who is mostly mute and diagnosed, and the other who is very much lightly on the spectrum.

There is another kid who is both ADD and autistic(Diagnosed). He is prone to RMS-like behaviour. If you talk to him in the right way, he can understand why certain behaviours are to be not repeated. However, he is and remains a teenager.

[prmoustache]

I am not diagnosed as autistic and also have trouble understanding why people can call my interactions rude as I just tend to try to be honest and precise.

It just happens that I don't like hypocrisy.

I am not an antisocial and consider myself a very polite person and will often say hello and wish a good day to strangers when I am riding my bicycle in the trails or walking in a village / small town.

[edoceo]

This isn't even rude.

[tremon]

Calling a spade a spade is already considered rude in some cultures/contexts, so I think the most you could say is "this isn't even rude from my perspective".

[edoceo]

Feels like most of the time most folk are mostly speaking from their perspective. Do we need that reminder every time?

[manoDev]

Please consider that your nephews are growing up on a world with a lot more awareness and empathy towards autism.

[smsm42]

I know somebody who smoked a lived to be 90 years old, therefore all that they speak about harms of smoking are lies.

You realize people are different, and your knowledge of tiny number of data points tells you very little about people who aren't those people you know?

[kh_hk]

YMMV I guess, he was cool with signing my laptop at FOSDEM in 2013 and even exchanged a couple of jokes. Humans be humans.

[nkrisc]

Some people don’t want to be your hero. Until you meet them, you can pretend they do want to be.

[andai]

Dang, until I read your story I thought he was a totally normal guy!

[khannn]

You sucked up to an autist, what did you think was going to happen? That's like trying to use Disney Dollars at Universal.

[mrweasel]

To some people, like myself, it has only in later years become apparent that RMS is autistic. In the late 90s, early 2000s is when I became aware of Stallman and his work on GNU and FSF. All that was pretty much always in form of writing and articles. Only semi-direct interaction was when a friend of mine invited him to talk at the local LUG, which he refused, if it wasn't change to GNU/Linux User Group, he was told "NO" and that was it. He always came across as difficult, but only in later years have many of us become aware that he might actually have a diagnoses of some form, until then he was just labeled at "difficult".

[collingreen]

This is a really important perspective to remember in all our daily lives but also when motivated politicians say things like "autism epidemic". I guess there might be an equivalent decline in people labeled as difficult?

If anyone is going to support policy for our fellow humans spend an extra moment making sure to both have empathy and make sure we're comparing apples to apples.

[BobbyTables2]

Did he print those out on a printer with closed source software? (;->

[iberator]

Why? Nroff/troff is literally designed to be printed with CUPS or Postscript etc etc etc

You can also literally cat > /dev/printer

[jagged-chisel]

Don’t forget the firmware

[smsm42]

If there's a printer with OSS firmware, Stallman likely owns it.

[Longlius]

I feel like rms just doesn't like human interaction generally. I've noticed that a lot of visionaries are that way.

[tjr]

I've worked with RMS a good bit over the past few decades, and, in my interactions with him, he has always come across kind, helpful, and professional.

[torginus]

I guess if you are popular and an introvert who likes to be left alone, then being nice and personable is not an option :)

[manmal]

That’s clearly not only introversion, but (probably little masked) autism.

[giancarlostoro]

He's gotta have a weird thing with his feet. My old boss saw him at a talking event here in Orlando, and he said he was picking skin off his toes or something weird the entire time he was talking. He's the hero we needed but probably deserve (as punishment for being bad humans).

[FireBeyond]

Better than the televised interview panel he did where not only was he doing that, he then appeared to eat the skin flakes on multiple occasions...

[IAmBroom]

Weirdly paralelling heroin dependency... (mostly in the picking, but still)