[RickJWagner]

Here is a speech about illegal immigration from President Obama. He describes the problems caused by excess immigration. He also describes how he was stepping up efforts to stop illegal immigration and to deport those already over the border.

Do you think Obama was wrong, and was he evil in your eyes? Remember, he used ICE exactly the same way Trump is using ICE. ICE leadership is even the same team Obama used.

https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/the-press-office/2014/1...

[mindslight]

How is any of that related to what I said?

[RickJWagner]

It’s providing context. To understand DeSantis’ motivation, you have to understand the context.

Biden had sharply changed direction from what prior administrations had done, including Obamas. Biden did not only fail to secure the border ( he claimed only Congress could do that, which Trump definitively disproved ), but he even sold off materials being used to build the border. Remember the huge caravans of immigrants arriving and passing through the border? Governors of states most affected were doing their best to protect their constituents.

Biden would not listen to reason. He continued to defy precedent and logic ( again, completely reversing Obamas actions ). He needed a wake up call.

That’s why DeSantis did what he did. The people of Martha’s Vinyard played perfect stooges, using the National Guard to move the immigrants out of their back yard immediately.

Now for you. Was Obama evil for doing what every other president except Biden did? Were the people that voted for Obama evil?

[mindslight]

Sorry no, you don't get to dredge up "context" of something bad someone else did to set an emotional stage of urgency for justifying another bad thing. That is how we get a race to the bottom where things keep getting worse and worse, as half of the useful idiots cheer it on at any given time.

FWIW I did not vote for Obama either time. If you want to talk about the evil things that he did, a much easier starting touchstone is the extrajudicial drone assassinations.

Also FWIW I don't have strong feelings on the actual immigration issue here! If people were being arrested in an orderly fashion based on good faith investigation per case, by officers with public identities and systems of accountability, given due process opportunity to possibly show they are a citizen or otherwise here legally, held in clean humane conditions, with all of this publicly documented to show the whole process was above board - I'd have very little problem! The problem is exactly the manner in which this is being done - masked paramilitary gangs wholesale assaulting civil society in American cities, using some God-knows-what dowsing rod app to scan people and declare them uncitizens (thereby not worthy of human rights), then being disappeared from interested people (eg family, attorneys), and held in concentration camps or shipped off to foreign countries. This destroys the rule of law and Constitutional rights for all of us. And if you really can't understand this, then you need a crash course in individual Liberty to get your head screwed on quick. The way I see it, the immigration issue is essentially just a pretext.

[RickJWagner]

Well, some of what you have written is agreeable to me.

Remembering that Obama built the steel cages for immigrants, I believe you are not placing blame only on the present administration. I find that fair.

FWIW, the ACLU takes a similar stance. They condemn Trump strongly, and condemned Obama just as strongly. I find no fault with their reasoning there, either.

[mindslight]

Well, that's a start.

I'm placing blame on the present administration for its presently ongoing actions, which could be stopped in the present. There's little reason to talk about Obama unless we're doing some detached post-mortem about the slow process of our country being destroyed. But as to the present actions - even if you want to characterize them as part of a slow slide longer arc, that still implies that the current incarnation is the worst yet.

[conception]

“Exactly the same way” is doing a world class job of work as a phrase here.

[RickJWagner]

In what way do they differ? Tactics?