[anonymars]

Fractional reserve banking is still not the same as printing money outright

If you borrow $100 USD from the bank, and pay it off immediately after, it's clear no money was "created" as such

If $100 USD is "printed" outright, it's clear that there's no way to achieve that same result

The fact that the debt isn't generally paid back immediately doesn't change that fundamental. That's what I meant when I said any apparent "change" is about "time" rather than "money"

It is true that the money supply should expand with the economy. Turning raw materials into finished goods represents a larger "net economy" at the end of the process than at the beginning. (Indeed that's basically how it makes sense to have interest on debt in the first place)

Nevertheless, printing money out of whole cloth is different from issuing debt

[thunky]

> If you borrow $100 USD from the bank, and pay it off immediately after, it's clear no money was "created" as such

The bank "printed" money by handing out cash that it didn't have. It only had a fraction of it. That new money went free into the world with the same respect any other cash gets. You and I can't pull that off.

[anonymars]

> That new money went free into the world

Along with a "-$100" IOU on the books

That is different from merely "printing money"

[thunky]

> Along with a "-$100" IOU on the books

Which they can use as an asset to create (lend out) even more money that they don't have.

Call it what you want, but the bank is adding money to the economy that wasn't there before.

[anonymars]

The bank is essentially converting a short term IOU (liquid deposits) into a longer term IOU (the loan)

It's a function of time (mediated by interest rates, subject to market demand, namely liquidity preferences)

That's not the same as outright "printing money" which is not backed by any deposits (what does the balance sheet look like when "printing money"?)

[thunky]

Ok fine I'll agree call it "creating money" rather than "printing money", because it's not the same mechanism the central bank uses to "print" permanent money (technically not printed either but whatever), but money is still created by the bank.