[marcinzm]

It’s not a scam. It’s a system that exists for people and made by people. Period. Money, outcomes and so on only have value because people assign them value. If you remove people then what you do has no value or concept of value. Life is not some video game with an omniscient score counter. Other people are the score counter.

[johnnyanmac]

In your lens: people are often horrible at keeping score, distracted by values that do no help them win overall.

Not necessarily a bad thing at times. Of course some chance encounter that builds a friendship or even family can be worth not winning that ball game. But actions have consequences and maybe someone else needed to win to get their goals fulfilled.

[marcinzm]

In my lens the only true score is the collection perception of the score. Not a number, not a formula and not what you think the score is. There is no external absolute counter you can point to because the collective view is the truth.

[johnnyanmac]

>In my lens the only true score is the collection perception of the score, not what you think the score is.

Am I not part of the collective? When does my perception matter or not? Is it majority rule and I'm just a pariah following my own beat?

Given the "collective view" of my country on 2025, I think I'll opt out of the score, thanks.

[cal_dent]

You are part of the collective, but that does not necessarily mean that your perception matters for the purpose of the score, what this thread is about. Sticking to thread, in terms of perspective on corporate world, are you a decision-maker? or do you have any significant influence on a decision-maker? if no then your perception simply does not matter for the game that is being played.

But also applies to politics you're alluding too. Every election cycle is strewn with the paper votes of much of the electorate because, although they're part of the collective, it turns out their perception didn't matter. You can pretend you opt out of the score but unless you're planning to live on in a different country/planet you cant really.

Your perception matters to you and your values. It's still important but it's a mistake to assume it has to matter to the rest of society/corporation overall

[johnnyanmac]

Well sure. That's why we're in this situation. We (perhaps correctly) think no one cares about us in the wider society.

There's two reactions to this. Accept this and make your own trail in life, perhaps becoming a decision maker in the process. Or find others and collect together to make sure your agreed upon ideas can and must be heard.

[QuantumFunnel]

People are terrible at keeping score for others, because they're usually only paying attention to themselves

[marcinzm]

There is no objective score and thus people are perfect at it since the score is by definition what other people think it is. Like the value of money or stocks. Once you realize that a lot of life is significantly less frustrating.

[johnnyanmac]

I'd say life becomes more frustrating of you really think this extreme. You realize your values and then realize certain people with contradictoryvalues aren't part of your community, hut obstacles to overcome. Now it's not a team game, it's a battle royale. Not necessarily winner take all, but overall a lot of people will lose more than they win.

A collective sense of "score" is needed to prevent that.

[marcinzm]

It’s got nothing to do with values but value. Are you doing things that provide value. Once you realize the only measure of that is how other people perceive what you’ve done it’s a lot less frustrating. It makes thing more cooperative as you now need to work with others and communicate with others and you know that versus clinging to a siloed invalid notion of value.

[johnnyanmac]

That goes into what my above reply warns about. Of their "value" is something that contradicts yours, you have an obstacle, not a team working towards a goal.

If some manager's value is "I just need to phone it in and retire" and you are misson-driven, you have an obstacle. Now you're going behind the back of the obstacle trying to stand out, and essential work isn't being met. Mamager panics, has to do more work and probably chastises the other person. Each are only trying to follow what their goals "value".

We do need "values", plural. "Values" will help let out singular "value" compromise as needed. So we shift from "I just want to retire" to "okay, I'll male sure the excited one can get on bigger projects while I chill". And let's the "I want to change the world" types occasionally compromise with "okay this person needs help for a moment". It's not crushing dreams but also making sure that other collective goals are met.

[9rx]

> Of their "value" is something that contradicts yours, you have an obstacle, not a team working towards a goal.

The goal is to ensure that for the value someone else can offer you, you have something of equal value to offer to them in kind.

If you are useless blob, that's not an obstacle, it merely means you're not even trying to be a team player. Face life alone if you so wish, but since the dawn of time humans have leaned into social organization for good reason.

[epicureanideal]

> If some manager's value is "I just need to phone it in and retire" and you are misson-driven, you have an obstacle.

This describes the majority of my career in tech, I think.

Maybe not that exact situation every time, but similar goals of manager or team that are not “accomplish the mission”.