[throwaway290]

"everybody who is not a complete idiot" not true. looks like you're in your tech bubble and you think everybody else who is a regular person is an idiot.

using VPN for circumventing censorship is illegal in Russia. fine is worse if if you promote it. for people who can't afford to spend a few thousands it's enough.

some people don't care about fines, but new ISP equipment detects and ban VPNs quickly so people always need to keep trying new servers. so people get used to not using VPN more and more because it's annoying and unstable.

[Andrew_nenakhov]

Of course, it is true. If you are not a complete idiot, you won't be content with being blocked from the information you seek, so you'd find someone technical to help you out. I personally give access to my vpn server to ~100 users for free, and so far the access is stable enough. I have little doubts that in the future it'll be more difficult, but we'll see about that when we get there.

[throwaway290]

Calling people "complete idiots" because they follow the law, because they don't have $$$ to spend on fines, because they are unlucky to be doing a job society actually needs like a teacher or cleaner or bus driver instead of vibe coding ai saas, will not help you convince people about the change you want to see

A normal person follows the law. It's bad when that law is forced by dictator but you should get off your high horse sometimes. If you think of regular public as complete idiots you should not be surprised when they vote for putin. Similar thing happened in america where democrats alienated as many people as possible by looking down on them like they're stupid

And why it is logically not true: an idiot is by definition a person with abnormality. If you are saying 90% of people are abnormal... idk what to tell you

> I personally give access to my vpn server to ~100 users for free, and so far the access is stable enough

yeah I often talk to a friend who does the same. depending on your region it won't be too stable for long.

> you won't be content with being blocked from the information you seek

You don't know what you don't know. If you don't know it is, you don't seek it. That's why censorship works

[Andrew_nenakhov]

You aren't from Russia, aren't you? Yes, anyone in Russia who still doesn't have VPN access IS a complete idiot. This is the reality on the ground that I observe every day. Nannies in kindergartens have them, teachers at school have them, salespersons in perfume store have them, all students have them, schoolchildren have them.

And it has nothing to do with the law — currently, using vpn isn't breaking any laws.

[throwaway290]

Where is that, Moscow? I guess you aren't from Russia)

[Andrew_nenakhov]

No, Chelyabinsk. You want a photo proof of me standing in the street?

[throwaway290]

Must be nice. Now imagine living not so close to "center" (the mostly white west of the country). They test more advanced blocking in the regions first because people don't complain so much. Same logic with contractors, most people are recruited to the war from these regions. Why? because they are poor and watch tv. What even is VPN? another ploy by anglo-saxons?;)

Basically I'll tell you it's like this:

60% chance you have some VPN apps, if you are not old or if you have a child to explain it to you. The main use: whatsapp or telegram which are semi blocked, and if you are young and fashionable or your fashionable son sends you these links then youtube-instagram-tiktok which are blocked. Regularly VPN fails (ISPs block them fast) so you turn on another one and keep doing like this until one works. Fun fact, paid ones are blocked faster so it is more reliable to use free VPN. (Remember that you won't hear about VPN by random people or teachers at school because it is very illegal)

And you should know that outside of tech bubble the most popular media in the country is by far VK, Telegram and maybe Whatsapp. Youtube/instagram/tiktok are minority. Telegram/whatsapp are legit why many people use VPN, but it is not required (probably the only reason they are not fully blocked is to discourage VPN use). And even then only until everybody switch to Max which is already required by many schools and in all budget jobs. Remember that most most people in Russia support the government and do what they are told.

So ask yourself how many people have a reason to bother with all this. And actually who of them is bigger idiot, who is using free VPN (safe like used condom) or who is not using VPN.

But OK, you can call everybody complete idiots, that's fine. Just don't expect people to take you very seriously while you are looking down on them.

[coryrc]

> everybody else who is a regular person is an idiot.

Looking at your dictator's approval levels and the number of people willingly signing up to die while killing innocents, that sounds correct.

You all need help breaking the cycle of intergenerational trauma.

[Andrew_nenakhov]

Lol, the dictator's approval rating is so high that he bans, forces to exile or kills any opposing candidate, never risking elections vs anyone not fully controlled by him.

Every time someone like Bukele flexes that his approval rating is higher than Putin's, I laugh -- the guy clearly doesn't understand that this isn't the flex he thinks it is.

[throwaway290]

I used to be rosy eyed like you for a while

I think if you talked to more fellow russians you would be surprised how many support him unironically)

by my estimate more than 50% (of people who have an opinion)

control of information is a magical thing

[BobaFloutist]

I mean the whole thing about perverting statistics is we can't know the truth, since anecdotal surveys are useless (which I realized as a child in 2004 when Bush won despite everyone I knew hating him) and anything big enough to be meaningful is corrupted.

Even if they didn't massage the stats after asking people, I doubt everyone is fully comfortable sharing their honest opinions.

So...we can't know. We likely never will know, at least how people at large felt in this precise moment.

[throwaway290]

I know from talking to people outside of my friend circle. Sure it's not reliable statistics but it's what I have. Try talking to taxi drivers and so on.

[mopsi]

Putin's approval rating is genuinely that high, around 80%. Nobody cares about opposing candidates, because Russia has had one or two free elections in its entire history. Far more important is that Putin has flooded the lower classes with money. People who were used to surviving on a few hundred dollars a month are now receiving tens of thousands in sign-up bonuses alone, plus military wages and compensations. Absolutely life-changing money for them. It is comparable to flooding a troubled area like West Virginia with military sign-up bonuses ranging from hundreds of thousands to a million per enlistment, with additional money flowing into communities from injury and death compensations.

[Andrew_nenakhov]

This is absolutely delusional, but Putin thanks you for serving his cause.

Regarding your claim that Putin flooded the lower classes with money, this is simply false. What percent of the population do you think signed up for war? Do you really think that 0.5% (optimistic estimate) that did sign up had spread their wealth with anyone else?

Just last week I stayed in the hospital with 2 men, 72y.o and 64y.o. One has pension of 19k RUB, another one 23k RUB. That's fewer than $300. Showered with money, Yay!

[throwaway290]

contractors are getting paid VERY good money relatively. Imagine you live in a village, your education is so so. You live in an old house with parents. How much do you earn? Anything?

But now you go to war and you/your family gets 200000 monthly. You can buy a cheap car for that money AND buy a flat in a city (first mortgage payment) after first month. Not counting signup bonus.

[Andrew_nenakhov]

How many contractors do you think there are relative to the size of population, so that the previous poster was claiming that was flooded with wealth?? This is just plain nonsense. Mercenary payments have extremely limited impact on the overall 'lower class' wealth.

(And you somehow forget about the little insignificant downside of a mercenary career that you might be a bit dead or maimed, oops)

[throwaway290]

you are offtopic, but I will entertain your comment because I'm so confused/amused by what you say and what means "idiot" in your world.

- are you saying people forced to sign up for the war by force or rapists who do it to get out of jail in Russia are idiots?

- are you saying being pro putin/pro war is like being an idiot in Russia?

- are you saying russians in tech are saints and all like one are "not idiots" against the war? maybe you need a reminder about unit 26165 and APT28

- are you saying "everyone in russia/china/israel/iran/north korea/republican party is an idiot"? then allow me to congratulate you on such nuanced understanding of the world, enough said!

[coryrc]

I'm saying the vast majority of people who support Putin are idiots, just like the vast majority of people who support Trump are idiots, and the religious rural fundies of Iran are mostly idiots. There's a lot of idiots out there and they don't like to think. It causes them pain to think hard. So they like people who tell them simple lies.

Others are immoral or evil smart people. Unless you're working to undermine your dictator, that might be you.

[throwaway290]

idiot by definition is abnormal. if there is more idiots than non idiots then you have a wrong understanding of idiot. if almost everybody except you is an idiot then look in the mirror.

americans voted for trump because they are tired of democrats looking down on them. in other words, people with your attitude are to blame. until you seriously start trying to understand people and why they do stuff (it is not because they are idiots) you will keep making them do the opposite of what you think is good.

[coryrc]

> idiot by definition is abnormal

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/idiot "1 Informal., an utterly foolish or senseless person." Nope, no abnormality needed.

There was (and still is in some places) a lot of lead poisoning. That more people are dumber than their genetics would otherwise dictate doesn't make them not idiots in my obviously-informal ranting.

> americans voted for trump because they are tired of democrats looking down on them.

Please read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/They_Thought_They_Were_Free

[throwaway290]

Nope, still the same. If everyone else is "foolish and senseless" from your personal view then that's baseline, sorry to inform you

an american wrote a book about germans? why do I want to read it? but thanks for reminding me, as far as I know it was similar when hitler came to power, weimar was falling apart and people felt disrespected due to reparations and nazi preyed on that.