[machomaster]

This is akin to him saying that average American needs X money for the car to participate in society, and you suggest that his numbers don't math because one could:

1. Walk around everywhere (Idaho, Iowa) 2. move to New York (with ok public transportation)

Mobile phone and unlimited high-speed internet are requirements for participation in society.

[eudamoniac]

> unlimited high-speed internet are requirements for participation in society

I pay $7/mo (not a typo) for 1GB mobile data via US Mobile, and I have never hit that cap in many years. I just don't stream video or audio unless on WiFi, which is not a hardship. Respectfully, what on earth are you talking about?

[machomaster]

My monthly mobile internet usage is 5-25GB. And this is me working from home using wifi, having cheap internet (slow, but unlimited) and barely being outside. Phone wifi usage is 150-250GB/month.

[eudamoniac]

Well, I have to wonder what you are doing on your phone. I don't restrict my usage at all outside of video and audio streaming, so I'm befuddled as to how you use 10-50 times more data than I do.

Last month, 429MB used:

107 YouTube music

91 Google maps

70 Firefox

22 Amazon

Miscellaneous other small amounts

WiFi usage 26GB

I don't doubt that you use a lot of internet, but that amount is far away from a "requirement to participate in society" .

[machomaster]

I watch a lot of videos (with increased speed). Also Telegram is a big consumer of bandwidth.

Also, since I live in Europe, I don't use car (otherwise would obviously not able to watch videos during travel), but public transportation. And using mobile internet is normal, nobody cares to ask for cafe wifi or to even type it in despite being visible on the wall. This is very freeing. Perhaps more than Americans can imagine, since the limits are internalized. Analogy would be the freedom Americans feel, after they move to Europe and realize that they don't have to worry about becoming broke due to sudden health problems. This is a constant worry that Americans have, but the extend of which is fully understood only after the shackles have been dropped.

Like, a lot of people here don't even have a separate internet connection at home, but are simply using their phone's shared internet with their laptops. That's how normal it is. And these "no limits" contracts are what allows the change in behavior to FULLY utilize the technology, without the need to limit oneself.

A lot depends on how one understands the word "participate". I mean, is eating the diet of only oats, eggs and protein powder enough to "have eating needs met" or is the requirement limit at "balanced food diet, with cost not influencing decisions"?

In my opinion requirement can be rephrased into "can fulfill all the phone/internet needs, without limits, without restricting oneself". So in this sense your internet requirement is 26.5GB and we have to look at the price of the phone connect that would provide at least this much at full speed.

[BeetleB]

Not at all. Most people don't use 5 GB in data each month. Most people do drive.

> Mobile phone and unlimited high-speed internet are requirements for participation in society.

Sadly, I have to agree with you about mobile phones, due to 2FA. But unlimited high speed just for when you don't have Wifi a requirement? Nonsense.

[machomaster]

Worrying about what the wifi password is for this place is such an old-school thing in America. Europeans and Asians find it baffling.

If you have internet access on your phone while you're actively moving, it should work all the time, without any traffic limits or the need to keep asking for shitty cafe wifi (because your mobile internet is even worse).

It really reminds me of the Healthcare System conversations, when Americans are justifying why their way of doing things is logical and correct, while the rest of the world shakes their heads.