[dasil003]

That's such a reductive statement. Yes there are always some unproductive meetings one has to attend. On the other hand, you'd be surprised how many leaders and middle-managers viscerally understand the cost of low-value meetings, and are doing everything they can to empower individuals to manage their own time. They might not call bullshit in a group setting (after all, as the slides call out: critical feedback should be given 1-1), but rest assured plenty of folks understand and will not hold it against you if you vote with your attendance.

[micromacrofoot]

I've had one manager over 10 jobs spanning 40 years that was on board with this

[jon-wood]

I’ve had multiple managers over many jobs who’ve said they were on board with this. I’ve had CEOs saying from the top down “decline meetings without an agenda”, and yet somehow it never changes.

[blackqueeriroh]

Did you actually try doing it? Otherwise, how would it change?

[garciasn]

I have worked at many companies over my career. From 10s of thousands, to thousands, to hundreds, to tens of employees. There wasn't a SINGLE ONE that would tolerate someone declining EVERY MEETING when the culture does not align to the ideals this presentation outlines.

Clearly your experience is different and that's absolutely awesome; consider yourself incredibly fortunate.

[jpadkins]

Intel in the 90s-2000s did. I did customer research on them (worked on powerpoint at the time). I was amazed that the CEO gave a mandate to the company that if an agenda was not posted to a meeting 24H before the meeting, you did not have to attend that meeting. They also had other crazy strict meeting rules that I forgot.

[grvdrm]

> There wasn't a SINGLE ONE that would tolerate someone declining EVERY MEETING when the culture does not align to the ideals this presentation outlines.

Exactly. Love the deck. Like you, agree with many things.

My similar suggestions (but a little looser):

1. Long meetings need agendas. But don't expect perfection. You can get away with no agenda in a short (30 or less) meeting.

2. Very large meetings need a DRIVER (person). I hate a big meeting when someone says something like "so who wants to bring something up" - no no no. I don't want free-form conversation in a large meeting. I want someone to drive the hell out of the meeting. Keep people in check!

Most important:

3. Do what you can to discover the underlying motivation of the meeting organizer and solve their motivation some other way. Recently sat through a disastrous JIRA-focused meeting. Talking about tickets, their purpose, their descriptions, etc. But I knew the person needed the data for executive-team reporting. So I offered to help fill in gaps (without a call) to improve their reporting. I saved myself future time, he got better reporting - a win.

Constant and outright decline behavior will probably backfire.

[rafterydj]

Wow, I might need to steal that idea for bypassing Jira discussions. I hate Jira with all my might.

[grvdrm]

Please do. It works!

I don't think most folks are both interested and trying to sit in mindless meetings (like my JIRA example).

That JIRA example is particularly annoying. It's a product team (with an external consultant) using JIRA to track progress. But like anything with a reporting component, people are now optimizing toward what's reported - not toward real work. Success in a week (or sprint) is number of tickets closed not whether anything actually happened.

I declined several of these JIRA update meetings. At least two invites popped onto my calendar as agenda-less hour-long blocks.

Then I joined one, asked all the questions around purpose, and suggested what I would do to help with less overall effort and a reduction in pesky meeting invites.

[blackqueeriroh]

Why do you hate Jira?

[Aeolun]

> I hate a big meeting when someone says something like "so who wants to bring something up" - no no no.

This makes the meeting end really quick when nobody has anything to discuss right? For some people the only way you are ever going to get them to bring something up is by asking in a meeting.

[grvdrm]

That no one has anything almost never happens.

I support the idea of bringing something to table. Instead maybe ask for simple 1-sentence ideas over email (or chat/etc.) in advance and then you use those as the driver of the meeting.

[micromacrofoot]

the slowest talking person always brings up the dumbest thing that for some reason half the room suddenly cares deeply about

[maxerickson]

In a functional organization, it's almost certainly going to be absurd to argue that you can't provide value to any of the meetings that you are invited to.

[Aeolun]

I can provide value to any meeting that I’m invited to. That doesn’t mean it’s the most valuable thing I can do with my time (especially given how tragically frustrating most of them are).

[maxerickson]

I mean, I can probably rephrase things to somehow eventually pin you down to admitting that maybe some meetings are worthwhile or otherwise necessary.

[blackqueeriroh]

I’m looking for where GP or even the original presentation said that no meetings were worthwhile or otherwise necessary.

Can you help me find it?

[maxerickson]

The context I'm pulling in is by the caps in the comment I initially replied to, would tolerate someone declining EVERY MEETING. Note the caps.

As far as the GP, what I'm getting at is that they are tediously nitpicking my phrasing rather than addressing my point. If there are some meetings that make sense to spend your time on, (in the context of my comment) what the fuck does it matter if there are also some that it doesn't.

If they think they have never spent their time well on a meeting, an explication of that would be more interesting than saying that they can find better things to do than attend some meetings.

[JumpCrisscross]

> wasn't a SINGLE ONE that would tolerate someone declining EVERY MEETING when the culture does not align to the ideals this presentation outlines

Well yes, if the culture doesn't allow it then it's not going to happen. That doesn't mean those cultures don't exist or that they can't be created, even if just in a pocket

[blitzar]

I just work here.

[blackqueeriroh]

Then you can just keep going to meetings and hating it! Culture is created from both ends.

[wiseowise]

> empower individuals

Eye roll

How to detect a "leader".

[kortilla]

It’s corporate jargon, but it has a meaning - autonomy. If you’re in the “eye roll” camp you’re gonna max out on your potential pretty early.