[reneherse]

I'm a huge Elon Musk/Tesla/SpaceX fan, and have often felt it would be the ultimate opportunity to work at either company (Tesla would be my first choice, as automotive interface tech is one of my passions).

However, doing a quick bit of research earlier today, a search for "Tesla working environment" turned up more than a handful of reports by former and current employees that hint at an unpleasant company culture. Six to seven day workweeks, below average compensation, hyper-political management, management that is quick to fire, and a generally chaotic environment. These factors seemed to be reported even by folks who cited other benefits such as a high degree of autonomy and the opportunity to work with other highly passionate top level engineers on important emerging technologies. One additional oft-repeated concern was that the pace at which Tesla works its engineers is unsustainable, and will lead to burnout for lack of work-life balance.

Can anyone closer to the Valley than I am comment on whether these concerns ring true? And how does this compare to work at other highly innovative and passionate industrial startups?

Elon's explanation of the latest round of fundraising is welcome news, and personally I'm gunning for Tesla to become the Apple of the auto industry. (I plan on buying stock as soon as I'm able.) Is there anything we can infer from these employee reports about the health of Tesla's organizational core/DNA, and what effect that might have on the company's prospects for long term success? [Edited for clarity]

[richardw]

I'm guessing, but the culture clash might come from an intersection of "car factory" meets "startup mindset", with the latter introducing an against-all-odds urgency. If you want to put a rocket in space or create the first viable electric car company, you probably can't initially go home at 5pm. You're probably less forgiving of those that can't keep up with the insane pace.

Here's hoping it calms down, and that the people who helped make the vision a reality are well rewarded.

[potatolicious]

Hogwash. If you can't do something at a sustainable pace, you can't do it at all.

In startup environments crunch time has a nasty tendency of becoming normal time, and you get nosediving morale, massively increased attrition, and lower overall productivity. It's lose-lose all around.

So sure, in a startup you'd expect some late nights. When late nights become the norm though, you are now officially in dysfunctional company territory - don't let naive founders with rainbows and unicorns in their eyes convince you otherwise. Very sick of this Valley attitude that you must push yourself to the very edge of death-by-exhaustion to achieve anything worthwhile.

[nmcfarl]

Hogwash. You can’t even start a new bank on bankers hours much less spaceship company, or more prosaically a restaurant.

Companies are founded on the time and passion of their earliest members.

Obviously burnout is a problem from day one, and the trick to building a company for the long haul is to move from zero to a monetarily sustainable enterprise while at the same time moving from insane hours to viable ones, and to do it fast enough that you don’t burnout the whole company before you get there. It’s not an easy trick.

[Domenic_S]

You're not really disagreeing with the GP.

A real big question, especially in startup-land, is when is a startup no longer a startup? When you offer health insurance? When you're cashflow positive? $1MM/yr? $10MM/yr?

It's really easy to justify the long nights with, "Well, we're a startup." And if you generate enough money with those long nights to KTLO and make sure paychecks don't bounce, it's hard to call it quits. But after N years, the "we're a startup" excuse gets old.

[creekside408]

Every baseball team has a bench. The unsung hero that is the difference between start-up success and failure is often a family member, friend, or junior helper who keeps the caffeine and food and goodies stocked, has the temerity to send people home when they're so exhausted they're no longer helpful, and last but not least, can occasionally talk some sense into the SuperFounder. Or at least makes sure there is a long comfy couch.

[cantbecool]

Don't let a few postings online deter you from applying to work for a company that you find intriguing. Just ignore the naysayers and give it a shot. That's the only way of finding out if you would enjoying being a part of something. It's a startup pushing the boundaries of technology within two industries, there's going to be a few sleepless nights, but in the long run you will definitely be part of something massive, which could evidently change humanity as we know it.

[jessep]

I have a bunch of friends who work at Tesla. They do work hard, one of whom works waaaaay too hard, but it's meaningful work. They're changing the world.

It's a similar feeling I get from people I know who work at Apple.

[coliveira]

I understand the geek/social effect of saying that you work for Apple or any other well perceived company, but get real: you're no changing the world. You would change the world if you were one of the first few employees at Apple, or nowadays if you are a high ranking executive/manager. Other than that, you're just a small piece in the engine. Maybe an independent developer is doing more to change the world than an employee at Apple.

[stcredzero]

> You would change the world if you were one of the first few employees at Apple, or nowadays if you are a high ranking executive/manager. Other than that, you're just a small piece in the engine.

“Almost everything you do will seem insignificant, but it is important that you do it”

--Mahatma Gandhi

[mmagin]

I don't think Gandhi was suggesting people devote their life to working at Apple.

[ImprovedSilence]

no, but it's the sum of seemingly un-important things that actually end up creating a great meaning. Be a part of it.

[jeremyarussell]

Getting a similar feeling from Apple employees as Tesla employees doesn't mean Apple employees are really changing the world, it just means that the Apple employees genuinely believe that they are.

[waterlesscloud]

Nothing wrong with working hard, but the "below average compensation" is something to look at a bit more closely.

[eps]

Stock options plan would be another thing to look at a bit more closely.

[chollida1]

Agreed, with their disappointing stock performance from the beginning of the year on, stock options would definitely be one thing to really examine and determine if they would be worth anything at all.

[loceng]

Really? That's the direction you took? You realize what Tesla is doing is going to destroy the oil economy - dependency on oil for cars - and practically eliminate the need to pay for re-fueling your car once you own it? Or is it that you just don't believe it?

[jusben1369]

loceng your comment falls directly into the "Drinking the Kool Aid" bucket. If Tesla was such a sure thing then their stock price would reflect that. It doesn't because people who assess it still see a lot of risk to go along with a lot of upside. So it's fair to ask "If you're taking a reduced salary in exchange for stock options how likely is it that you'll be rewarded?" Right now the jury is out. It's important to remember that Tesla has no real competition to their core market right now. Mid to High end electric cars. Once they prove out the concept they'll face stiffer competition. I do hope they'll succeed and think Musk is one of the greatest visionaries and innovators of our time. That doesn't mean you don't get to ask hard questions around execution and competition.

As to the OP and original thread I think the question would be "Do a Google search on your four or five favorite startups/companies around "X working environment" Does Tesla feel disproportionately represented by negative comments or inline with the others relative to age and size. EVERY hard charging company has disgruntled folks. It's a question of proportionality I think.

[chollida1]

> Really? That's the direction you took? You realize what Tesla is doing is going to destroy the oil economy - dependency on oil for cars - and practically eliminate the need to pay for re-fueling your car once you own it? Or is it that you just don't believe it?

Calm down:)

All I was responding to was a couple of comments about working for below average wages, bad work environment and the performance of Tesla's stock, which has been a bit disappointing over the past year.

I do think that Tesla will become profitable, but I don't' think for a second that it will "destroy the oil economy".

And consider for a second this statement: > "practically eliminate the need to pay for re-fueling your car"

I don't' think Tesla has any such goal, as far as I know they still require you to refuel your car by plugging it into an electricity source. Electricity is literally the new fuel source.

How are you imagining that this is going away? Or are you using fuel in a narrow manner to refer to only oil based fuel?

[scott_s]

Of course one should determining what one thinks the stock options will be worth in the future, but the current stock performance has little bearing on that.

[lkozma]

I know nothing of Tesla/SpaceX, but be aware that how glamorous/hip a company/industry/etc is, often correlates negatively with how well they treat employees by objective measures, i.e. working hours, salary, etc. Just read some posts about the gaming industry. It's supply and demand, really.

[stephenhuey]

I was going to assume everyone is happy there since they should realize when joining that they're facing big challenges, but I was surprised to see so many disgruntled people on Glassdoor:

http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Tesla-Motors-Reviews-E43129...

Tough to say what the stories were behind all of these, but I can see how they might feel the need to push people way harder than normal, because during yesterday's presidential debate Romney lumped Tesla in with a list of losers that the government has given money to. Plenty of people are expecting them to fail even though many of us are excited at their prospects. In such an environment, I can see how Elon Musk might push some workers beyond what they can handle. However, I'd expect many of them are still happy to be part of the team even though the work is hard, because a Tesla employee really is part of something more world-changing than an Electronic Arts coder is.

[JonLim]

I'm pretty sure Elon Musk himself said that he works his Tesla employees hard - he asks for people who are passionate about their mission, and that they know that they will be taking a pay cut, as they are a startup, in exchange for being worked to the bone.

It's not that he created a bad culture, I think he just hired people who were willing to take a risk with Tesla, and they work hard to produce a successful company.

[sandieman]

Apple employees were overworked harder then anyone.. What is your point?!

[mmariani]

I don't know why you've got some down votes on your comment since you just pointed out the truth.

Many of us here are founders and we're in business to challenge status quo and possibly make a dent in the universe. That takes hard work from founders AND contributors.

If anyone thinks things should be different in startup business, they should take a step back and really evaluate how much hard work really goes into achieving these goals.

After that if they can't see no compelling reason to do it, they should just get a job in a more traditional business. I don't blame people for taking that route. This business isn't for anyone.

[tryitnow]

Work/life balance? If I worked at Tesla I'd have a very hard time going home in the evening. I think exciting companies attract people who just keep going that extra mile.

Getting out of work at 5pm kind of defeats the purpose of working at a company like Tesla.

[uvdiv]

Maybe they should unionize.

[mtgx]

Sounds a lot like Apple.