[YZF]

We need to disconnect the question of bad managers from the structural issues though. I try to be a good manager but I still have people jump ship for better comp and where we won't match it. I still need to deal with an incentive structure that doesn't match what I am trying to do with my team.

This same structure is also what helps bad managers. Who is going to get promoted to a director role? The person who stands up for their team and argues with the VP or the person who toes the line? The things that you think are near-miracles are not visible and the people that play politics will make their stuff look more valuable to the company.

/rant I guess ;)

[pdimitar]

Yours and my experience are not mutually exclusive, I think we both see it. I dream of managers like you but I never get hired under them for some reason. (Likely regional culture, experience shows.)

I'm at a stage of life and career where I'd happily take a small pay cut for a year just to establish myself in a place and have stability. Then we'll talk about competitive compensation.

My chief issues are with people that are best described with the proverb "give them an inch and they will take a mile".

Yours seems to be that you deal with people that constantly think that they can do better in terms of how much they take home (let's not sugar-coat it, they're spoiled -- I was too).

Heroics being invisible and people who have their coffee with leadership getting the money and the influence is the wrong system. Always was and apparently always will be.