[JackSlateur]

"management doesn't care about good code, it cares about results."

And management is probably right: code is a mean, not an end

It is us, as software engineers, to make that better code brings better results

Some benefits of better code can be:

  - less infrastructure cost
  - more speed / efficiency / whatever metrics available from the users
  - easier to integrate new features
  - less issues, less time spent in maintenance etc

At my current job, we have some instance of people who animate around bad practices: they scan everything, identifies some "bad practice" (which can be whatever) and then raise the issue to all teams and give them a month to fix the issues

Very political stuff

I try to do good code. My team is rarely cited in that list of "bad players". Management does notice.

Corollary: our roadmap is not messed up. Product managements notices.

Also, good code must mean robust infrastructure. We have very few incident. Almost all our changes are successful. Incident and change managers notice.

Anyway, my point is : if good code brings no benefits to the outside world .. how is it good, exactly ?

[mexicocitinluez]

> And management is probably right: code is a mean, not an end

Absolutely!!!!

Our job is not to produce code, it's to produce a product. Code is just the way we happen to execute that goal.

[zingar]

Yup, tolerating inappropriate tech debt for too long leads to bad results. I see this going wrong all the time and I thought it was mostly due to being surrounded by bootcamp grads given nothing but year after year of pressure and no examples of what good code can look like. Surprised to hear the same thing happens in big tech.