[andersonpico]

> (especially women)

It's always about that isn't it? Not getting the reaction you want, vilifying your interlocutor, then run crying with fingers in your ears screaming "lalala I didn't want it anyway" and declaring yourself a stoic is really indicative of the type of people who in the present day call themselves stoics.

This whole thread is just a long-winded version of redpill discourse, people who can see past minor adolescent romantic mishaps.

How pathetic is it to still model your whole life after women while pretending to be an isle of self-reliance? Men really are lost.

[triceratops]

I didn't see any vilification of women. Women value sharing and emotional vulnerability. It's how they bond with other women, who make up the bulk of their friends. Men's experiences with other men, the bulk of their friends, often make them wary of being emotionally vulnerable. Hence, naturally, a disconnect when a man and a woman are establishing a relationship.

[zozbot234]

Women value sharing and emotional vulnerability, but typically not from the males in their lives. There is a significant disconnect between average women and genuine male emotions, and males are expected to show emotional resilience and self-control first and foremost precisely to bridge that gap and then allow the 'sharing' to occur unimpeded, though still in a somewhat controlled way.

[watwut]

Are men expected to do so? Male anger is more tolerated then female anger. Also, if you look at men who are popular or get far, they are super emotional - Trump, Musk, Tate heck even Vance and Hengensberg.

Emotions driven males are cultural and political leaders literally now.

[bdangubic]

this is the general insanity of today’s world, today’s leaders would be laughed at as weakest of the weak in vast majority of human history, just absolute weakest men imaginable are “leaders” now…

[lazide]

There is a saying in wealth management - ‘the first generation builds it, the second generation preserves it, the third generation smokes it’.

It’s hard to not see that playing out in a large sense society wise right now, if we assume the first generation was the post WW2 folks, and the wealth was the post-WW2 economic benefits from the US not being bombed into the Stone Age like most of the rest of the world - and if anything, being the only major economy still standing.

Where exactly you draw the lines generationally is of course up for debate. But we’re starting to have to relearn a lot of hard lessons now that the post WW2 (and depression) generations understood as basic table stakes.

And it’s not because people today are ‘weaker’ per-se. Rather, they’ve lived a (relatively) comfortable life. That generally leads to not having to learn the hard lessons (or being so miserable) that they do the hard things required to build that society. And there is no free lunch. And it was never ideal, then, or now, and will never be ideal in the future either.

But it can be better if we put in the work and take the risk.

[triceratops]

> Male anger is more tolerated then female anger

That's only one emotion. What about all the rest?

[watwut]

In the context of "males are expected to show emotional resilience and self-control first" this is absolutely the primary thing that matters.

[lazide]

Only if not directed where society wants.

Fighting a war? Absolutely. Defending your family? Absolutely. Getting in an argument with your spouse? Not at all.

[nephihaha]

Anger like any other emotion has its place. But it is better to channel it into something productive.

Trump and Musk are men who were born into wealth, and were boosted by mass media for decades, so I don't think they really count. Musk's main tactic has been to take credit for others' R&D.

[amanaplanacanal]

It's possible you are hanging around with the wrong women.

[watwut]

OP blamed women for supposedly complaining that men dont open up. Men simultaneously have natural friendships with other men, but it is women fault men do not open up.

Por op, women are at wrong when they want men to talk (which is outrageous ask), but also cause of men not talking. Which includes men not talking to other men, which is also fault of women.

[triceratops]

> OP blamed women for supposedly complaining that men dont open up

Correct. And often accurate.

> it is women fault men do not open up

I don't think OP said that.

> Por op, women are at wrong when they want men to talk

Nor that.

> Which includes men not talking to other men, which is also fault of women

Nor that.

[lazide]

Never did I say such a thing at all.

[dennis_jeeves2]

>> (especially women)

>It's always about that isn't it?

>How pathetic is it to still model your whole life after women while pretending to be an isle of self-reliance? Men really are lost.

If I were to hazard a guess: he said it in the passing. You read into it a little too much.

[lazide]

Frankly, a large portion of these replies feel like some pretty clear cut projection. It’s impressive.

[dennis_jeeves2]

Yes, it's projection for sure. A large number of men appear to need validation from women. Pathetic. I guess from an evolutionary perspective it had to that way. Men who didn't need that validation worked themselves out of the gene pool.

[lazide]

It depends on the degree.

Completely ignoring what everyone thinks and doing your own thing is a good way to get in a very dangerous situation from a basic-life-needs perspective. And with women being a bit over half the population, saying ‘fuck it’ to what half the population wants, especially if you’re picking fights with them, is quite dangerous - even if they are not 100%.

But you know who can handle dangerous, and doesn’t need validation from the population (in that form) to get what they want and have their needs met?

The actual king.

It’s a high risk, high reward (potentially) strategy. Better be good (and actually strong) if you want to not need to be liked.

What I think we’ve been seeing play out is entire generations of men who learned that the best strategy was to be liked by women so the women would do all the work to support them. Which seems to have worked quite well for many of them for awhile.

But now people are burning out, and the ‘easy wins’ from the prior approach (or just lifestyle creep/inflation!) is causing more real and visible difficulty - and the situation is indeed getting more difficult. We even have clear predators showing up and operating in the open, with no one stopping them.

There needs to be more than just vibes and following the rules for things to work out now, and a different approach is needed.

We’ll see what ends up shaking out, eh?

One thing is clear though - if society won’t accept someone stepping up and punching someone in the face or worse (even if it is to protect them), you’ll eventually end up with a bunch of predators who will do whatever they want without fear taking advantage of society.