[pjc50]

> It's been about 30 years since the "strong independent women" meme first started in popular media.

Much longer than that. While there was significant pre-war feminism, it really took off in the 1960s. Perhaps what people mean is a sort of post-"Bechdel test" world, where people will be sharply criticized if they make a piece of media that only has (properly characterized) male characters.

I see it as a co-existence problem. Trying to insist on male-only spaces or male-only values isn't going to fly any more. A lot of traditional masculinity is framed around being "not a woman", an inherently denigratory concept. It needs a programme that is (a) positive and (b) a concept of personhood and value that's not tied to gender.

[ml-anon]

lol title IX was only in the 70s. Post bechdel whatever, it was only a handful of years ago that women could finally speak out en masse about not being sexually assaulted on film and TV sets.

Co-existence indeed.

[lelanthran]

> it was only a handful of years ago that women could finally speak out en masse about not being sexually assaulted on film and TV sets.

That wasn't a women-only problem, IIRC. The Hollywood casting couch (and similar problems) was used against both men and women. Some actors (like Kevin Spacey) were called out/blackballed for unwanted sexual attention/acts that they perpetrated against men.

As far as women being allowed to speak out - everyone is allowed to speak out, but the rich and influential silences people who they have left aggrieved. These include both men and women.

To put things in perspective, you joined a thread discussing a singular male-only problem, and dragged female issues into it, which, on closer inspection, turned out to be not female-exclusive anyway.

This is the problem.