[noduerme]

I know it's fashionable to say that democracy itself leads to these outcomes that destroy democracy. I think Arendt was right about self-colonization and overproduction of elites being the main thing that leads to totalitarianism. There wouldn't even be such a thing as a silicon valley billionaire if the United States wasn't the most wildly successful political entity for the past 2000 years. Power corrupts, but that's distinct from an argument that the systems which created it in this case should be replaced by systems that funnel power in other ways.

[pjc50]

There's some complaints about this book not being out, but Arendt's book has been out since 1963 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eichmann_in_Jerusalem#Banality... and is highly regarded reading on this subject.

[wolvesechoes]

> Power corrupts

It doesn't, although they would like you to believe so, so you avoid obtaining it.

But it definitely attracts those corrupted.

[TeMPOraL]

It does, by its very nature. Power is not magic, nor is it the Force. It's not a quantity you can stockpile and own - power is leased, it's granted to you by other people. It comes with expectations on how you will wield that power, and usually can be taken away just as quickly as it was granted, if you exercise it in ways they don't approve[0].

Power is obtained through meeting people, gaining their favor, entering deals, providing them services, eventually joining their ranks and advancing to the next level on the ordinal scale. Especially in politics, "power corrupts" by definition; by the time you gain any, you're so thoroughly entangled in mutual deals and friendships with other players you're no longer an autonomous entity - and if you're not willing to do that, you will never be given the opportunity to advance.

--

[0] - Yes, there are caveats and strategems one can use to hold on to power - usually by playing people against each other to coerce ongoing support; every history period and every movie with a villain has plenty of examples. It's another discussion; my focus here is on what power is, and where it comes from.

[im3w1l]

Whenever I heard that expression I have never perceived people to mean "so don't obtain power". More like, "if you do get power be careful". Or "even if he seems like a nice guy, we should maintain a separation of powers".

Like it's more a force than a destiny. Gravity pulls the moon down every day yet it doesn't fall on our heads.

[delichon]

You don't believe that there are people who honored a principle until temptation became to strong? Only people who pursued the temptation?

[TeMPOraL]

False dichotomy; power is not a stockpilable quantity, it comes from other people and their willingness to defer to you or entertain you. Compromising is not a temptation to get power quicker - compromise is power, it's how you acquire it. The more you want to lean on the system to help you, the more aligned you need to be with it, eventually becoming one with it; you sacrifice autonomy at every step of the way.

[delichon]

> There wouldn't even be such a thing as a silicon valley billionaire if the United States wasn't the most wildly successful political entity for the past 2000 years.

It's less wildly successful as a political entity than Christianity or Islam.

[noduerme]

I'm not talking about the number of impoverished converts or believers. In terms of prosperity and global power, no religion or former empire has come close.

[andsoitis]

> There wouldn't even be such a thing as a silicon valley billionaire if the United States wasn't the most wildly successful political entity for the past 2000 years.

I don’t know that I would position the USA in this way.

Different metrics lead to different “winners”:

Longevity: Imperial China

Institutional legacy: Rome

Global reach: British Empire

Scientific/cultural transmission: Islamic Caliphates

Modern dominance: United States

Another lens:

* Rome & China = stability, governance, internal cohesion.

* Britain & the US = networks, capital markets, technology leverage.

* Caliphates = knowledge platforms, cosmopolitan integration.