[fromhet]

Some people seem to fail to understand that Steam is yet another package manager, but this time filled with only non-free stuff, in a way that has so much DRM it's unusable in any ways but the intended one.

Steam on linux is, I think, a big problem for us. There will be dpkg (or whatever your distro chose). This one will install apps in a way that is consistent with the system, and with POSIX. Then, there will be steam. Steam is used because it is the only way to get apps people want. I do not own a game I paid for on Steam. Not even in the way I own non-free apps like Alfred or Ableton Live. I don't have a right to use them, I am merely allowed to do so.

I understand that it is in Valves interest to lock us down like this. But in this case, their interest is against ours, the users.

[tree_of_item]

Steam shouldn't be a problem for people who use free software: just don't buy software from Steam, same as always.

If Steam convinces more people to install GNU/Linux I'd say that's a net win. People are going to be using nonfree software anyway, so they might as well do it on a free operating system.

[icebraining]

Yes. And hopefully it'll add more pressure (and possibly help) to improve graphic card drivers and such.

[Laremere]

It already has. Their work on getting L4D working on Linux has already made it so that it now runs faster on the same hardware than with Windows. Source: http://blogs.valvesoftware.com/linux/faster-zombies/

[lifeformed]

That's just a side effect of their business model - it's fairly evident that it's a higher priority for them to provide a great user experience than to lock them down.

Just yesterday I was reminded of this, when reformatting my computer and reinstalling everything. I forgot to deactivate keys on some of my work software before doing so, and spent hours emailing to get them back. Meanwhile, the whole license/ownership concept of all my games on Steam was completely abstracted away through their install-anywhere-as-many-times policy and Steam Cloud.

[Ntrails]

One day I hope that I will be able to link all my DvDs and music and films into a steam style library, and stop caring about backing them up, and keeping the sodding disks.

Regardless of horror stories about banned accounts, the steam model is one I find infinitely more attractive than even itunes.

[reitzensteinm]

My cofounder lost about a thousand dollars worth of games when he bought Left 4 Dead 2 via PayPal.

PayPal, as it sometimes does, reversed the transaction due to its fraud detection systems, through no fault or instruction of my cofounder.

So Steam locked the entire account, permanently and irreversibly. It wasn't even an option to pay the $50 by another method.

I still buy Steam games, but only on sale.

[petitmiam]

This sounds extreme. What was the response from steam technical support?

[reitzensteinm]

That was the response from Steam technical support.

They were basically assuming fraud; which is what buying a game, receiving the goods, then issuing a chargeback (or PayPal equivalent) would be.

He patiently explained to them that it wasn't initiated by him, but they pretty much stonewalled him.

Apparently having done a thousand dollars worth of business already without incident wasn't enough to get the benefit of the doubt.

[olliesaunders]

Someone else could do this right now. That could be a reasonable startup idea. I’m not experienced enough to know but this seems like it could be in the ballpark of sounding like a bad idea but not being (akin to what PG describes in his black swan essay).

[wmf]

UltraViolet is supposed to be that, although it's taking a while to get going.

[doesnt_know]

I just had to register to point out that your statement about the " install-anywhere-as-many-times" blanket policy is incorrect. It's true that all of Valve's games do this and it also might be true that all the new software (not games) being added will need to follow this policy (I'm not sure). It certainly isn't true for large amounts of AAA games already on Steam though.

Developers and publishers are allowed to add any DRM they want on top of Steam, and frequently do. So you can purchase something through Steam, which can have Securom, Tages, Windows LIVE or any other DRM scheme. This includes limited machine installations which sometimes offer deactivation, but only if you specifically uninstall and deactivate them. So in your reformatting use-case, depending on what games you have purchased, you may end up in the same situation.

Basically, you incorrectly assumed Steam is an alternative to other DRM measures, when in fact it's quite often[1] used on top of other DRM schemes. If you don't believe me, simply check the store pages of most major Ubisoft[2] titles. I just picked Anno 2070 (because I know it has it) and in the infobox on the right hand side:

3rd-party DRM: Solidshield Tages SAS 3 machine activation limit

[1]Among AAA titles that is, I have yet to see it in any indie titles. [2]Pretty much the worst player in the industry when it comes to DRM.

[lifeformed]

That's true; I don't purchase many AAA games so I don't experience that much. It is pretty annoying having GFWL on top of Steam.

As an indie developer on Steam, I can't see any non-AAA games ever using additional DRM. We're just in it for the convenience of distribution.

[dfox]

I have for a long time avoided steam because of this perception of it being an DRM loaded bunch of crap. Then I had actually done some analysis on steam and found out, that the whole thing does not do anything that can be called DRM, it is in fact really an package manager and framework for network/social functionality. As mostly fulltime linux user and developer I´d rather see software from steam than software using flex-lm (which is the case for most commercial software for linux now and great pain in the ass).

[shardling]

There was a point in the past when you needed an internet connection to play downloaded Steam games -- I think that's where the DRM rep comes from.

But for at least a few years, you've been able to launch steam without an internet connection.

[Deestan]

Unless the steam process shuts down unexpectedly, or you suddenly lose internet connection, or your computer reboots too quickly for Steam to keep up. Then Steam will decide it needs to ... validate something ... with the online servers before allowing offline mode. Far from idea.

[ZoFreX]

That is up to the games - they can choose to hook into Steam's API for that DRM, or roll their own DRM (or both, thank you Ubisoft), or they can ship without any protection.

[TazeTSchnitzel]

To be fair, Steam doesn't install apps the proper way on Windows either. Start menu shortcuts actually open Steam and then launch the game. Uninstallers? Launch Steam.

[undergroundhero]

On Windows 7 I can use CCleaner or the control panel to uninstall games installed with Steam.

[jitl]

It varies from package to package. Many Steam games are installed with a normal Windows MSI that just targets your `$STEAM/steamapps/common` folder instead of `/Program Files (x86)`, and these packages can be removed using the Control Panel or CCleaner.

There are plenty of Steam packages that use the Steam infrastructure in a much more integral manner, however. These packages (like TF2 or Half-Life 2) are stored in compressed and encrypted cache files, and install only some components into a directory like `$STEAM/steamapps/$USERNAME/`. These packages can only be removed using the Steam application. While package stubs may be placed for the Control Panel to manage, the "uninstall" action will just call the Steam "Delete Local Content" action.

[lukifer]

Devil's advocate: DRM and a convenient buying experience mean a lower barrier to creating a business model and getting a paycheck, meaning more software gets written, which is good for users.

Don't get me wrong, I don't like cloud licensing or DRM either, and I won't be using Steam for anything but games. But there is a place for such "software vending machines" as Steam and the Mac App Store, particularly at the low end of the market.

[icebraining]

more [DRMed] software gets written, which is good for users.

Actually, you'll find that not everyone agrees. (Personally, I don't have a strong opinion either way)