[cyberax]

The thing with Gaza is that HAMAS there had 20 years of unlimited power, wholly funded by the UN/US/Qatar aid. Gaza literally has no other significant income streams.

HAMAS spent this time to build a network of tunnels below the streets, and to stockpile ammo/explosives. They could care less about the people, using them only as human shields. They also actively brainwashed the population: https://www.ynetnews.com/magazine/article/b1fjucpdgg

So what would be a "proportional" answer from Israel? They don't have any good options.

> The Isrealli response to those terrorist with guns killing and abducting some of their people, was to flatten and impose collective punishment on the whole country that those people came from.

To give you the sense of scale, HAMAS murdered 1195 people, and they also took 250 people as hostages (somehow pro-Palestinian protesters almost never knew about this!). And 1500 people is a HUGE number for a tiny country like Israel (Jewish population of 7200000). Scaled to the size of the US, this would be aroud 70000 people, many times the size of 9/11.

[xp84]

Not to mention that as soon as the IDF pulled out, Hamas immediately started dragging Palestinians out into the streets and publicly executing them for “collaboration” crimes real or imagined. The #1 killer of Palestinians is Hamas itself.

It’s pure cowardice that they fight the way they do, mixing all their military equipment with civilian infrastructure like hospitals and schools, and they rely on propagandizing gullible Western liberals (as well as anti-semites) to get support for their murderous cause.

There is no way to fight them that doesn’t endanger civilians. And there’s no way for Israeli Jews to continue breathing without fighting Hamas. Anyone who doesn’t believe that is living in a fantasy.

[ebbi]

They executed them due to treason, a law that the USA also has.

The number of Palestinians executed is far less than those killed by Israeli aggression. Don't minimize the war crimes of Israel.

How far is the IDF office from civilian infrastructure?

Your comment reeks of propaganda - or severe misinformation at the least.

[cyberax]

> They executed them due to treason, a law that the USA also has.

With full legal proceedings, lawyers, appeals, appeals to the European Court of Human Rights, etc.?

> The number of Palestinians executed is far less than those killed by Israeli aggression. Don't minimize the war crimes of Israel.

Yes, "aggression" that happened on its own, completely unprovoked.

But I'm sure that even if Israel had been provoked, then such a lawful and peaceful state as Gaza would have had no problems extraditing all the responsible criminals. Or maybe applying the same death penalty to them?

Surely, if they have the death penalty for treason, then they should also have the death penalty for terrorism?

> Your comment reeks of propaganda - or severe misinformation at the least.

You are seriously justifying rampant murder by terrorists.

Sorry, but if this IS what Gaza stands for, then I sure as hell don't want it to be independent.

[ebbi]

> Yes, "aggression" that happened on its own, completely unprovoked.

Ahh, propaganda again. You really are a victim of propaganda, or believe history started on Oct 7. Predictable.

> You are seriously justifying rampant murder by terrorists.

I'd say, and most people around the world, that that's what you're doing. I'm recognizing resistance, and calling out crimes where it occurs. I'm not one to tell oppressed people how to be oppressed, how to be the perfect victims. When you oppress people, it's going to backfire at some point in time.

As far as I recall, Hamas has openly called for, and encouraged, third party involvement to investigate any war crimes committed on Oct 7th and to prosecute the perpetrators. Israel? Not so much...

[AnimalMuppet]

> As far as I recall, Hamas has openly called for, and encouraged, third party involvement to investigate any war crimes committed on Oct 7th and to prosecute the perpetrators.

Sorry, I'm going to need an actual source before I believe that. ("As far as I recall" is not a source.)

[ebbi]

Search for Basem Naim (Hamas' political bureau member).

In late 2023 and early 2024, Naim repeatedly said that Hamas was ready to welcome an international inquiry mission into allegations about what Hamas fighters did on October 7.

In a statement responding to a New York Times report on sexual violence on Oct 7, he said Hamas had “on various occasions… welcomed any international inquiry mission to look into any allegations” and contrasted this with Israel allegedly blocking investigations.

And from Anadolu Ajansi: "Urged “a neutral international commission of inquiry” to look into allegations of sexual violations committed by its fighters during the Oct 7 attack"

[cyberax]

> Ahh, propaganda again. You really are a victim of propaganda, or believe history started on Oct 7. Predictable.

Let's look at 2005, then? When Israel forcibly displaced people out of Gaza. That is, Jewish settlers. Giving HAMAS full control over the land.

Or maybe 2011, when Israel exchanged more than a thousand prisoners (convicted through a regular legal process) for Gilad Shalit.

Sorry, but in the case of Gaza it's completely black-and-white. There are really no shades of gray there. HAMAS was given free rein, and they paid back by committing the worst terrorist act in Israel's history. HAMAS did nothing to help their people, using Gazans as puppets, while funneling money to criminals.

And I actually support sanctions against Israel for their West Bank settlers and discriminatory laws that result in the displacement of Palestinians there. Israel is certainly not blameless.

> When you oppress people, it's going to backfire at some point in time.

Who exactly was oppressing Gaza? Except HAMAS, of course.

> As far as I recall, Hamas has openly called for, and encouraged, third party involvement to investigate any war crimes committed on Oct 7th and to prosecute the perpetrators. Israel? Not so much...

Links? I'm _sure_ they must have at least detained some of the estimated 6000 people participating in the raid?

[xp84]

Nobody has ever shown that IDF puts military installations under or in hospitals or schools, as Hamas exclusively does. In fact Hamas slaughtered women and children in places like a music festival and kibbutzim that had zero military connection at all. These are not legitimate targets, making Hamas war criminals. On the contrary, when you put your fighters and your military hardware in a hospital, that becomes a legitimate target, according to the standard rules of engagement used by every military force in the world. Hamas chooses this. They choose it because they believe there is no downside to civilian death and suffering:

1. Martyrdom is supposed to be the top aspiration of their fanatic version of Islam, so they’re doing them a favor getting them killed

2. Everyone who knew the dead becomes more filled with hate for the enemy

3. Every civilian death gains Hamas more support among the gullible Western liberals who have been funding and supporting Hamas for decades.

They want this, they choose this, it’s all in their control and they prefer this. All because of their pure hatred for Jews, which will only be sated by actual genocide.

[Aeolun]

They murdered 1195 people, and on a country of 7 million? That is terrible you say?

How about murdering 17,000 children in a country with a population of 2M total?

Does that sound better?

Nearly one in 20 people in Gaza was murdered by the Israelli military. That’s an ridiculous number. Since Nazi germany managed about 10% of their occupied population in 5 years, I guess they were right on track to hit those numbers before (can’t believe I’m saying this) Trump thought it was necessary to intervene, whatever his reasons.

[cyberax]

Israel did not murder 17000 children.