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by icehawk 209 days ago
> I upgrade all dependencies every time I deploy anything. If you don't, a zero day is going to bite you in the ass: that's the world we now live in.

I think you're using a different definition of zero day than what is standard. Any zero day vulnerability is not going to have a patch you can get with an update.
1 comments
jcalvinowens 209 days ago
Zero days often get fixed sooner than seven days. If you wait seven days, you're pointlessly vulnerable.
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saurik 209 days ago
Only if you already upgraded to the one with the bug in it, and then only if you ignore "this patch is actually different: read this notice and deploy it immediately". The argument is not "never update quickly": it is don't routinely deploy updates constantly that are not known to be high priority fixes.
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jcalvinowens 209 days ago
> The argument is not "never update quickly": it is don't routinely deploy updates constantly that are not known to be high priority fixes.

Yes. I'm saying that's wrong.

The default should always be to upgrade to new upstream releases immediately. Only in exceptional cases should things be held back.

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saurik 209 days ago
But that isn't what you said? ;P "f you wait seven days, you're pointlessly vulnerable." <- this is clearly a straw man, as no one is saying you'd wait seven days to deploy THAT patch... but, if some new configuration file feature is added, or it is ported to a new architecture you aren't using--aka, the 99.99% of patches--you don't deploy THOSE patches for a while (and I'd argue seven days is way way too small) until you get a feel that it isn't a supply chain attack (or what will become a zero day). Every now and then, someone tries to fix a serious bug... most of the time, you are just rolling the die on adding a new bug that someone can quickly find and exploit you using.
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jcalvinowens 208 days ago
You're completely missing the point.

> this is clearly a straw man, as no one is saying you'd wait seven days to deploy THAT patch...

The policy being proposed is that upgrades are delayed. So in a company where that policy was enforced, I would be required to request an exception to the policy for your hypothetical patch.

That's unacceptable for me. That's requiring me to do extra work for a nebulous poorly quantified security "benefit". It's a waste of my time and energy.

I'm saying the whole policy is unjustified and should never be applied by default. At all. It's stupid. Its harmful for zero demonstrable benefit.

I'm being blunt because you seem determined to somehow misconstrue what I'm saying as a nitpicky argument. I'm saying the whole policy is terrible and stupid. If it were forced on me by an employer, I would quit. Seriously.

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icehawk 209 days ago
Known vulnerabilities often get fixed sooner than seven days.

You will not know how long it takes to get a zero day fixed, because zero in "zero day" ends when the vendor is informed:

> "A zero day vulnerability refers to an exploitable bug in software that is unknown to the vendor."

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