[a2tech]

I’m an American and I can safely vouch that myself and most of the people I know deeply believe in the American ideals that have been presented as gospel for decades—fair play, hard work, rule of law, loving our neighbors (regardless of legal status), and to a one, believe that as soon as you swear your oath at the immigration court, you’re an American, regardless of the circumstances of your birth.

The situation we find ourselves in is that the American of today does not represent us well. I have hopes for the future, but time will tell.

[embedding-shape]

> and I can safely vouch that myself and most of the people I know

That's great, too bad none of those people sit in positions of power or anywhere near your government, because from the outside for the last two decades or more, those ideals are not visible to us at all, neither when we look at the foreign policy nor internal.

I'm sure the tides will eventually turn, but we're talking decades more likely than years, since it's been turning this direction for decades already, and I don't see it tipping the balance in the other way even today or the near-future. GLHF at the very least, I do hope things get better for everyone.

[m4rtink]

Yeah, that is something I don't get. You can hear all around the Internet "we did not vote of this!" yet you don see any visible reaction to all these bad decisions lately - no protests in the streets, no real attempts to block these things, people resigning rather then implementing bad decisions.

I just don't get it - unless all those ideals were just a show from the start.

[bryanlarsen]

> no protests in the streets

The No Kings protest was estimated at 7 million people.

[embedding-shape]

I'm not sure what the purpose is to go out on the streets for half a day, then everyone goes back inside and continue like nothing ever happen?

Go out, stay out until change is enacted. It's called striking, and if you had any sort of good unions, they'd be planning a general strike for a long time, and it should go on until you get change.

You know, like how other "modern" countries do it when the politicians forget who they actually work for.

[bryanlarsen]

General strikes weren't particularly common in the 60's in the US and those protests were considered widespread and effective.

[kelipso]

The No Kings “general strikes” consist almost entirely of retired people. I’m sure I saw anyone under 60 in those protests.

[Aloisius]

Employers can fire you in the US for general strikes. You're only protected if you're striking for grievances against the company, not for solidarity actions. Indeed, unions can be dissolved for it.

Add in how large the US is, it's population size, distribution, how far most people live from Washington D.C. and a cultural knee-jerk response to anything remotely seen as bullying of digging their heels in or fight back means they're far, far more difficult to do effectively here than in "modern" countries.

[embedding-shape]

> Employers can fire you in the US for general strikes. You're only protected if you're striking for grievances against the company, not for solidarity actions. Indeed, unions can be dissolved for it.

Yeah, but thankfully, solidarity kind of solves that, as people fired from their jobs because they're striking would be supported by the community. But, if the country doesn't have a history of having built such a community, often with big help from socialist and left-leaning groups, the options you have available today are kind of few.

But best day for it is today, even if yesterday wasn't very good.

[pessimizer]

The "No Kings" protest had absolutely no subject or issue other than repeating Trump's name. What would it have meant for it to have been successful? What I mean by that is what could "X" be in the sentence: "If X policy had changed, the No Kings rallies would have accomplished one of their goals"?

It was just an astroturfed Democratic party rally that drummed up participation by mass text spam from Indian call centers. The turnout was positively geriatric.

Incidentally, the Democratic Party has started running into a severe issue with text spammers and fake orgs asking for donations and raking in millions, and the people doing it are people who are actually involved with the party.

Those Constant Texts Asking You to Donate to Democrats Are Scams

https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/mothership-strate...

The Mothership Vortex: An Investigation Into the Firm at the Heart of the Democratic Spam Machine

https://data4democracy.substack.com/p/the-mothership-vortex-...

[embedding-shape]

People in the US seems allergic to unions and any sort of solidarity movements, so now you have all these individuals believing them to be the strongest individual, not realizing you need friends and grass-root movements to actually have any sort of civil opposition.

There does seem to be some slight improvements of this situation as of late, video game companies and other obvious sectors getting more unions. But still, even on HN you see lots of FUD about unions, I'm guessing because of the shitty state of police unions and generally the history of unions in the US, but there really isn't any way out of the current situation without solidarity across the entire working class and middle class in the US, even if they're right, left, center or purple.

[zidad]

If only the US would apply those values to their foreign policy, unfortunately the US voters don't care enough about that.

[pyrale]

> The situation we find ourselves in is that the American of today does not represent us well.

The thing the person you're replying to points out is that, while you may be earnest in your comment and representative of a majority of US citizen, that is not how the US as a country has worked for a very long time, and it was possible because you and your fellow citizen were either too ignorant or not involved enough.

I'll simply point to the history of Central and South America as evidence of my claim.

[drysine]

>the American of today does not represent us well

Why did good honest people of the US reelected Bush Jr. after the illegal invasion of Iraq when no WMD was found?

[isr]

Look, we can all acknowledge that there were, and are, many Americans who wish for this to be true. But at no point in America's history did that "many" ever constitute a majority. Or even close to it.

Which is why, from its very inception, the US has employed mass genocide at home, invasions & regime changes in the America's, then post-slavery apartheid at home, with invasions & regime changes in the rest of the world.

That's not anti-American rhetoric. That's just historical fact.

So, commingled with those facts, where does "law, love & fair play" come in. If you're honest, THAT was the propaganda. And the above realities, that was the truth.

The America of today IS the America it has always been. Its just that the propaganda mask can't be reattached with more duct tape. America started by geniciding non-whites at home, and rounding up & dragging non-whites TO America, in chains.

Now it's genociding non-whites abroad (primarily the Middle East), and rounding up & dragging non-whites FROM America, in chains.

When you focus on the common threads throughout American history, and strip away the fluff, you realise ... that's the real America (which still has the largest slave labour force in the world, through indentured workforces via its prison system).

[BrenBarn]

I'm not even sure it was never a majority. I'm not even sure it's not a majority now. It's more that the system is not set up to be good, even if the majority wants it to be.

[BrenBarn]

I think both can be true. The problem is that there are many people who believe as you do, but the system is set up in such way that those people are dissuaded from gaining power and influence, while the most machiavellian and amoral find an easy path.

[AndrewKemendo]

As a seventh generation American, war veteran who has been in public service for 22 of my 25 working years and mixed race person, America has literally never organizationally been any of the things you describe.

We are a nation of selfish, narcissists that have no concept of consistent long lasting care based communities.

What little care we give each other is mediated through transactions or cult based social alignment.

[a2tech]

Any nation made up of human beings is going to be flawed. The way forward is via incremental change and compromise. Forcing societal change does not, and never has, worked.

[pbhjpbhj]

>Forcing societal change does not, and never has

It looks like Musk was able to buy Twitter and, together with the other media magnates, force a massive societal change in USA. At least from the outside looking in, before this year USA seemed to be a democracy (with some factions doing their best to subvert that) and the Constitution seemed to be a widely supported basis for that democracy. But now, the Constitution has been torn to shreds and seemingly with massive support from people who will call sand wet and water dry if Trump tells them communists don't agree with it and that his clever uncle told him so.

[AndrewKemendo]

All you’re seeing now is what’s been happening behind closed doors since the founding of this country.

[AndrewKemendo]

The only thing that consistently “works” is the collective scientific process of hypothesis testing

Everything else is fantasy coping mechanisms to maintain in/out group distance so that people feel temporal “safety”

[NebulaStorm456]

US Plans for China Blockade Continue Taking Shape

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xqi_cPYiT9c

[dizzlewizzle]

>rule of law, loving our neighbors (regardless of legal status)

>The situation we find ourselves in is that the American of today does not represent us well.

The system can't represent a contradictory set of ideals.