[graemep]

Its mostly a matter of identity. Do you feel European or British? Its much like any secessionist movement. This partly explains the high ethnic minority vote for Brexit, because its hard to feel European if you are not of European origin.

It is also a matter of class identity. Being a remainer is a lot posher than being a leaver.

[surgical_fire]

This is so weird.

I live in EU, but I am not originally from Europe. I have a EU citizenship at this point though.

That said, I am staunchly pro EU, and would always vote for further integration. In truth, I even think that EU federalization would be a good idea.

I have no idea why immigrants of all people would have a nationalistic stance on this.

[graemep]

> That said, I am staunchly pro EU, and would always vote for further integration. In truth, I even think that EU federalization would be a good idea.

It is necessary. Having a common currency without a common budget has been a disaster.

> I have no idea why immigrants of all people would have a nationalistic stance on this.

How is it a nationalistic stance? You are preferring one identity over another - either way is just as nationalistic.

Immigrants from outside the EU do not like immigrants from the EU being given preference from their countries of origin, often places with strong historical links to Britain, where English is widely spoken, etc.

[jen20]

> Do you feel European or British?

English first, European second. Indeed, the people of Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland likely feel the same, and it’s unclear why that union should be considered worthwhile when a larger one is not.

> its hard to feel European if you are not of European origin.

All British-born people are of European origin. That is a simple geographic fact.

[graemep]

My daughter was born in Britain, but her ancestry is only partly European.

Lots of people are British born who are not of European ancestry. Unless you are defining "European origin" to mean "born in Europe" in which case your claim is tautologous. The other possibility is that you are defining "British born" to mean ethnically white British which does not really need any comment.

Even if it is not what you meant, European has strong implications of European ethnicity.

I would invert your question. Why do many people consider the larger union worthwhile but the smaller (and more workable one) not worthwhile? The only areas outside London that had a majority remain vote, are those where the vote was swung by Scottish or Welsh nationalists. In general the supporters of one union oppose the other.

[disgruntledphd2]

Northern Ireland voted remain, and even the pro union people mostly voted to stay in the EU as Brexit was a disaster for the island of Ireland.

[jen20]

To be clear, I think both unions are a good idea, or neither are. You can’t pick and choose though - the arguments for one are largely the arguments for the other.

Your statistics are also trivially falsifiable by simple counterexample - the town I lived and voted in during the 2016 EU membership referendum is not London, or the London area, is in England, and voted remain by 57.9% to 42.1%. The major city next door did so by an even more overwhelming margin: 61.7% to 38.3%. Not too many Welsh or Scottish nationalists in either…

So you’ll no doubt forgive me for not taking you too seriously when you spout horse shit dressed up as thoughtfulness.

By the way, I do indeed consider anyone born within the borders of the geographic boundary of Europe to be European, just like anyone born in the United States of America is American. The only arguments against such ideas are dog whistles (or let’s face it, full on soccer whistles at this point).