[tonyhart7]

"The whole selling point of Android up until now was that it allowed you to install any app you want."

we can debate whether this is bad thing or good thing, it would have no ends

what matters is reality, the reality is google have the right to change it.

[engeljohnb]

You've changed the subject. We were discussing whether one ought to use Google's term for it, or the term that's been used to describe this action since (I assume) the beginning of personal computing. Not whether Google is legally allowed to make the change.

My reason for bringing up the "selling point" was to bring attention to the language -- "You can install any app you want" has always been the common refrain when I see friends get into a debate about IOS vs Android. People are already using the term because it makes the most sense.

[tonyhart7]

"You can install any app you want"

the asnwer is not anymore

[engeljohnb]

What does that have to do with whether we should say "install" or "sideload?"

[tonyhart7]

same reason like you cant sideload in ios,playstation,xbox,switch etc

sideload is illegal

[oneshtein]

I have Linux installed on my own computer. Call the police.

[Zak]

Calling something a right is an assertion about morality; it implies that a law to the contrary would be a violation of that right.

I do not believe an an OS vendor with an app store has a right to limit alternate distribution channels or that a government does something wrong by restricting such practices as unfair competition.

[tonyhart7]

"I do not believe an an OS vendor with an app store has a right to limit alternate distribution channels or that a government does something wrong by restricting such practices as unfair competition."

but its not illegal and wrong tho???? if this is probihited then xbox,playstation,nintendo,ios etc would be fined already

unironically android is still more "open" than all of its competitor even after all of this

[Zak]

It might be illegal in the EU under the DMA. As I understand it, litigation involving Apple's equivalent is in progress, and the outcome may not be known for years.

Wrong in this context is an assertion about morality. I do think it's wrong in the context of consumer products for a vendor to attempt to override the wishes of the owner of the product outside of a few narrow exceptions. I would absolutely apply that to iOS, and I think the DMA didn't go far enough; Apple should have no ability to enforce notarization or charge fees to app developers if the device owner chooses otherwise.

I feel less strongly about game consoles because they're not as important as smartphones; they don't touch most aspects of life in modern society, and there are viable alternatives for their primary function, such as gaming on PCs. I don't like their business model and I don't own one.

[tonyhart7]

that's what I call hypocrite

all of big tech doing it for 20+ years and suddenly google isnt allowed to do "industry standard", like what we talking about here????

I know its bad for pro-sumer which is minority but consumer would get more protection which is majority so I dismiss HN audience because they are biases vs normal people

[ndriscoll]

They all should be? I've never understood why gamers just accept constant blatant anti-competitive practices, going so far as to act as if "exclusives" via DRM are a good thing rather than monopolistic product tying. e.g. it's been demonstrated that a Steam Deck is technically capable of running Switch games better than a Switch, and yet you are forced to buy a Switch in order to buy the games.

It's no longer 30 years ago when hardware was unique and quirky and programs were written in assembly specifically for the hardware. It's all the same commodity parts along with what is supposed to be illegal business practices. In a reasonable world, something like Ryujinx would be just as front-and-center as Proton as part of Valve's product features, and courts would fine companies for trying to stop their software from working on other platforms.

[tonyhart7]

because steam deck is more like "PC" than a console

I know, I know everything can be a "PC" if you look close enough but hear me

people can create their own ecosystem of walled garden whenever they want

[ndriscoll]

Antitrust law exists exactly to prevent companies from making their own ecosystem/walled garden that competitors cannot sell into. Product tying (forcing you to buy product B in order to buy product A) falls under that umbrella. Game console are not magical in this regard.

[tonyhart7]

Yeah, thats my point

game console has been doing it for 20+ years and they are fine, apple has doing it for 10+ years and they are fine

Google wants doing it???? they are fine to do that. if you have problem then you are hypocrite

[immibis]

I do not get this use of the word "reality"? The reality is Ted Bundy's currently-at-large successor has the ability to shoot me with a gun. And that fact is about as relevant as what you said.

What you're doing here is resigning from a game just because of the fact there is a game, and then being condescending to other people for trying to win the game instead, as if what you're doing is something superior. This would already be very odd behaviour if this were only Monopoly or Risk, but is downright dangerous propaganda when the game is capitalism and the future of free computing is at stake.

[tonyhart7]

"future of free computing is at stake."

that is what AOSP are, android remain "free"

the ecosystem around android??? remain google rights and rightfully so since google fund and develop most of it

same like apple does, microsoft does, nintendo does. nothing wrong againts that