[lumost]

I think the question is whether those ai tools make you produce more value. Anecdotally, the ai tools have changed the workflow and allowed me to produce more tools etc.

They have not necessarily changed the rate at which I produce valuable outputs (yet).

[awinter-py]

can you say more about this? what do you mean when you say 'more tools' is not the same as 'valuable outputs'

[lumost]

There are a thousand "nuisance" problems which matter to me and me alone. AI allows me to bang these out faster, and put nice UIs on it. When I'm making an internal tool - there really is no reason not to put a high quality UX on top. The high quality UX, or existence of a tool that only I use does not mean my value went up - just that I can do work that my boss would otherwise tell me not to do.

[chii]

personal increase in satisfaction (such as "work that my boss would otherwise tell me not to do") is valuable - even if only to you.

The fact is, value is produced when something can be produced at a fraction of the resources required previously, as long as the cost is borne by the person receiving the end result.

[elliotto]

Under this definition, could any tool at all be considered to produce more value?

[lumost]

no - this is a lesson an engineer learns early on. The time spent making the tool may still dwarf the time savings you gain from the tool. I may make tools for problems that only ever occurred or will occur once. That single incident may have occurred before I made the tool.

This also makes it harder to prioritize work in an organization. If work is perceived as "cheap" then it's easy to demand teams prioritize features that will simply never be used. Or to polish single user experiences far beyond what is necessary.

[xwolfi]

One thing I learned from this is to disregard all attempts at prioritizing based on the output's expected value for the users/business.

We prioritize now based on time complexity and omg, it changes everything: if we have 10 easy bugfixes and one giant feature to do (random bad faith example), we do 5 bugfixes and half the feature within a month and have an enormous satisfaction output from the users who would never have accepted to do it that way in the first place . If we had listened, we would have done 75% of the features and zero bug fixes and have angry users/clients whining that we did nothing all month...

The time spent on dev stuff absolutely matters, and churning quick stuff quickly provides more joy to the people who pay us. It's a delicate balance.

As for AI, for now, it just wastes our time. Always craps out half correct stuff so we optimized our time by refusing to use it, and beat teams who do that way.

[colecut]

Do using the tools increase ROI?

[gniv]

When using AI to find faults in existing processes that is value creation (assuming they get fixed of course).