[amy_petrik]

It's a simple catch-22

- women don't want to leave the workforce because one salary cannot support a family

- yet women remaining in the workforce, since single-salary is infeasible, thusly doubling supply of workers, lowering salaries, which itself makes it infeasible to single-income a family

Not to pick on women, as a feminist if you ask me, all modern men should have to be houseboys to serve their feminine masters. It does suck but it is necessary to benefit the modern women who did not suffer, in so by causing modern men to suffer -- to make amends for the suffering of all women in the perpetuity of history at the hands of all historical men, neither of which are alive today.

[ThunderSizzle]

A woman who intentionally went corporate and avoided having kids, and wasted her maternal instincts on someone else's profits, will suffer when their body clock catches up to them, and the company leaves them behind.

You can't go back and get pregnant. And your marriage probably ended in divorce already anyway by now, which is a whole more amount of suffering.

[mittensc]

Why do you feel the need to tell others how to live their lives?, frustration with your own?

[ThunderSizzle]

I'm not telling them how to live their lives. I'm just predicting the path that is made based on the choices made.

Everyone is on a journey, and the path their journey takes is partially the choices made. People are allowed to think hard about their choices, and the choices of others.

If they want their path to go their, so be it, and but it's cruel to not discuss the ramifications of choices made.

[mittensc]

what if you are wrong in your conlusions and thinking?

[kamaal]

Well that's the point, men are refusing to suffer.

There is little incentive to walking in a contract, where you are working all the time, no appreciation, love, gratitude or even a thank you. All the time being made to feel like you are not measuring up. And they'd rather be with somebody else apart from you. That done, you also come back from work and do all the chores you would if you remained single.

And if a few years later the other party decided to break the contract, now they take your home, get monthly pensions(with raises), and get to start the process all over again with somebody else at your expense.

Plus these days kids don't stay back with aging parents to care for them, so having kids appears pointless as well.

By and large, let alone an incentive, marriage and children seem to a massive negative for men. Hence I wouldn't be surprised low marriage and birth rates all over the world.

Why would you want to do all this? When you can work, keep the money, and spend it for your pleasure by staying single?

[MSFT_Edging]

You can spot a guy who 100% contributed to his divorce a mile away.

Basically a glowing LED billboard.

[watwut]

Except that it is men who complain constantly about wanting to marry and have kids while women are much more content being single and have friends.

You dont have to pay alimony of the wife worked thw whole time. That complain is funny in the comtext of men demanding to return back to time where alimony arrangement was necessary protection.

Even in marriage, it is more of women who initiate divorce are report higher hapiness after the divorce. Men report lower hapiness and are more likely yo want to marry again.

[kamaal]

Its in the nature of men to work and provide. That's how men seek fulfilment in life.

But if you dial up the pain in the process men will bail. This shouldn't be surprising.

Perhaps the most primal biological set up of all, the very basis of evolution is response to stimulus.

[4ggr0]

> Its in the nature of men to work and provide. That's how men seek fulfilment in life.

i'm sorry, what? it's ingrained in men to be worker-drones and every man sees this as his fulfillment?

yikes. as the kids say, 'touch grass'. translated for older people, "maybe expand your world-view and don't extrapolate your idea of a man to all of men."

[ThunderSizzle]

Men are workers. Not all work needs to be a "worker-drone", but yes, all men are built towards some form of work, and that work typically is around an item of sorts.

Men can work all sorts of ways, and that can include raising kids. Women tend to be a lot less happier leaving their kids to go toil with the dirt.

[4ggr0]

> Men are workers

What are women, then? Baby-machines, cooks and cleaners, which I guess you don't see as work?

I mean it's not the first time I encounter a dude with the same opinion as you have, but every time I'm surprised by the casual reductionism of our societies. Men make work, Women make baby. Men hard, Women soft. Men strong and powerful. Women weak and emotional.

[bossyTeacher]

> Except that it is men who complain constantly about wanting to marry and have kids

Easy to want that when "have kids" just means "impregnating your wife". Bet most of them would balk at the prospective of a 2 decade long 24/7 childcare duty routine if they had to do it themselves. Plus, if they really wanted to raise kids, many in orphans would benefit from a parent