[delish]

Posting a quick TL;DW. A minute into the video Chuck Moore says that Windows updates (on 11 and 10) have caused colorForth to crash, with Chuck thinking it's a graphical problem. I may comment more, but I wanted to post this because I don't see it mentioned as a youtube comment.

[bitwize]

Did Microsoft seriously deprecate BitBlt and 2D draw calls?

If so, it seems as if Windows is undergoing a Waylandization. "Yeah, we went ahead and removed those because they're legacy. Modern rendering pipelines don't work that way anymore." I don't WANT a rendering pipeline! I want a surface, and to make calls to scribble on it! That's it!

[mwcampbell]

> Did Microsoft seriously deprecate BitBlt and 2D draw calls?

Very unlikely. Far too many applications depend on those things. It's more likely that they accidentally changed something subtle that happened to break colorForth.

[hulitu]

> If so, it seems as if Windows is undergoing a Waylandization. "Yeah, we went ahead and

The Wayland idea looks very similar to a Microsoft brain extract: "trust us, it will be the best when it is ready", "your program doesn't work ? update to latest version", "we have updates: we disabled some things which worked before".

[bitwize]

The whole GNOME/FD.o complex has been like that for decades. GNOME's founding document is called "Let's Make Unix Not Suck". Its whole thesis is: Unix style system integration is old and busted; the new hotness is Windows style system integration.

But for decades, Microsoft has been willing to support and work on the ancient tech that got it where it is today. The GNOME/FD.o paradigm is like Mao's continuous revolution. Out with the old and in with the new, forever and always, on an ongoing basis. Microsoft is now changing to this model. I suspect it's for similar pragmatic reasons: it's difficult to recruit young and relatively inexperienced programmers if you're just going to put them to work fixing up code bases from the 90s (written in—brotha, eugh!—C and C++). Since we can't get anybody to maintain that old code, it will become a liability in the future, so we're better off throwing it out and telling our users to cope.

[eternityforest]

I'm guessing a lot of the legacy stuff that still uses it also depends on some other things they wanted to change too?

[JSR_FDED]

I have yet to read one single story where people are actually happy with Windows 11.

[remexre]

I wonder how well Proton would work for it...

[jz_]

It looks like colorForth runs in qemu or bochs according to documentation, so Proton/wine wouldn't be required.

[aaron_m04]

I could've sworn I saw something in the last month or two about BITBLT or DirectX changes on Windows.

[bitwize]

It wouldn't surprise me to find that Windows is now flagging and quarantining unsigned, unfamiliar executables that it catches making these draw calls or really any direct Win32 calls. Microsoft, and in particular Windows Defender which you can't really turn off anymore, has gotten pretty aggressive about blocking software for "security purposes".

[actionfromafar]

Are we going from "the only stable ABI on Linux is Wine", to "the only stable ABI is Wine"?

(Especially now that .NET Framework was donated to Wine...)

[Figs]

> Especially now that .NET Framework was donated to Wine...

Do you mean Mono, or did I miss something?

[actionfromafar]

Yes, I misremembered some things. Apparently Mono has more compatibility with .NET Framework (for instance 4.81) than dotnet (the current, modern recently released in version 10).

I mixed that up to mean that .NET Framework proper was released as open source, but that's unfortunately not the case.

[butvacuum]

Mono. Not .net fw.

[chris_wot]

If there is, does anyone have any info on this?