[Eddy_Viscosity2]

> However it being an obvious idea once stated does not mean people intuitively enact that idea, especially prior to hearing it. Thus the need to label the approach

This has some truth to it and if EA were primarily about reminding people that not all donations to charitable causes pack the same punch and that some might even be deleterious, then I wouldn't have any issues with it at all. But that's not what it is anymore, at least not the most notable version of it. My knee jerk reaction to it comes from this version. The one where narcissistic tech bros posture moral and intellectual superiority not only because they give, but because they give better than you.

[Joeboy]

Out of interest, do you identify any of the comments in this discussion as that kind of posturing? The "pro-EA" comments I see here seem (to me) to be fairly defensive in character. Whereas comments attacking EA seem pretty strident. Are you perceiving something different?

[Eddy_Viscosity2]

My impression of EA is not based on the comments here but the more public figures in this space. It is likely that others attacking EA are reacting to this also, while those defending it are doing so about the general concept of EA rather than a specific realization of EA that commenters like myself are against.

[estearum]

Which public figures? SBF?

Subtract billionaire activity from your perception of EA attitude: is this critique still true? Who specifically makes it so?

[Eddy_Viscosity2]

> Subtract billionaire activity from your perception of EA attitude

But that's the problem, that is my entire perception of EA. I see regular altruism where, like in the shopping example I gave above, wanting to be effective is already intrinsic. Doing things like giving people information that some forms of giving are better than others is just great. No issues there at all, but again I see that as a part of plain old regular altruism.

Then there is Effective Altruism (tm) which is the billionaire version that I see as performative and corrupt. Even when it helps people, this seems to be incidental rather that the main goal which appears to be marketing the EA premise for self promotion and back patting.

[estearum]

Obviously EA has a perception problem, but I have to admit it’s a little odd hearing someone just say that they know their perception is probably inaccurate and yet they choose to believe and propagate it regardless.

[Eddy_Viscosity2]

If it helps, instead of thinking of it as a perception problem, maybe think of it as a language problem. There are (at least) two versions of EA. One of them has good intentions and the other doesn't. But they are both called EA, so its not that people are perceiving incorrectly, its that they hear the term and associate it with one of those two versions. I tried to disambiguate by referring the one just regular altruism and other by the co-opted name. EA has been negatively branded and its very hard to come back from that association.

[Joeboy]

To be fair trying to be fair and accurate is pretty thankless.