[notepad0x90]

You have a good point, but is a phone equal to your private home, or is it similar to a car (where you are required to have transparent glass windows). Is it a right or a privilege?

But to challenge your argument further, if the majority are fine with having cameras in their homes that don't transmit unless a crime is detected, isn't that just democracy?

What's getting lost in this discussion might be the fact that the majority of people don't care that much about privacy, especially when heinous crimes are involved. Furthermore, the equivalent would be house builders installing cameras in homes, not home owners being required to install one. But a reasonable compromise might be scanning content being transmitted instead of stored?

[least]

> You have a good point, but is a phone equal to your private home, or is it similar to a car (where you are required to have transparent glass windows). Is it a right or a privilege?

We regulate the operation of motor vehicles because they pose an immediate safety risk. As in, the use of one could reasonably result in injury or death. A phone is not something you could reasonably expect to be used to create immediate harm (injury, death) and you wouldn't regulate one as such. That's not to say that aspects of it can't be regulated, but the fact that it can be a tool used to generate harm does not make it itself particularly dangerous.

> But to challenge your argument further, if the majority are fine with having cameras in their homes that don't transmit unless a crime is detected, isn't that just democracy?

Yes, which is why we avoid direct democracy pretty much everywhere in the world. But rights aren't something that can be taken away by a vote. Only protections against a government violating your rights can. If you could vote away your rights then pretty much every authoritarian government would be wholly justified in their abusive actions.

> What's getting lost in this discussion might be the fact that the majority of people don't care that much about privacy, especially when heinous crimes are involved. Furthermore, the equivalent would be house builders installing cameras in homes, not home owners being required to install one. But a reasonable compromise might be scanning content being transmitted instead of stored?

Most people don't care about a lot of things. That's another reason why we don't have most people writing legislation. There are tons of things I have extremely limited knowledge about that someone else feels very strongly about and vice versa. The majority of people feeling apathetic towards something isn't an indicator that the majority is correct.

[notepad0x90]

> We regulate the operation of motor vehicles because they pose an immediate safety risk.

That's not the legal reasoning as i recall. it is because they use public roads. They are just as unsafe when you drive them in a racing circuit or on your ranch, but traffic laws only apply on public roads. Same with your post mail being scanned and searched, or your baggage at airlines, it isn't just for safety and no warrant is needed, they look for contrabands,customs violations,etc.. too. It is because you are engaging in a privileged activity.

> Yes, which is why we avoid direct democracy pretty much everywhere in the world.

News to me, i thought it was because of practicality. I think you mean pluralistic?

> If you could vote away your rights then pretty much every authoritarian government would be wholly justified in their abusive actions.

Maybe a clear definition of digital rights is what is missing? But explain to me why your right to privacy is more important than the rights of victims. If victimization was rare, that would be one argument, but it is frequent, and something can be done to reduce it. From what I understand, the scanning methods Apple proposed are differential, your privacy won't be violated unless there is a match.

Going back to my earlier point, you have rights. But those rights can only be protected by the government so long as the security of its people remains in tact. Every right we have is taken way when it comes to "national security risk" for example. Is a potential terrorist attack any worse in terms of security compared to the very real impact of CSAM against the most innocent members of society? If there was a terrorist attack impending and the only way to stop it is by scanning everyone's phones, guess what? it is already the law that the government can do that.

> Most people don't care about a lot of things. That's another reason why we don't have most people writing legislation. There are tons of things I have extremely limited knowledge about that someone else feels very strongly about and vice versa. The majority of people feeling apathetic towards something isn't an indicator that the majority is correct.

They don't write legislation, but they determine what legislation gets written. They vote based on promises of legislation, they may not care about details but they care about outcomes. In this case "not caring" is for that, outcomes, not the technicalities of legislation. As a matter of policy the voters don't care. And law makers have a duty to reflect the sentiment of their constituents.

Even it comes down to taking away the rights of the minority voters, it may not be as simple legislation, but constitutional amendments exist and it all comes down to how many people want that change. We could literally have something insane like slavery back again within a year given enough popular sentiment.

The patriot act has been getting renewed since its inception, now almost a quarter of a century ago, across multiple administrations, and with bi-partisan support. that is the will of the people in effect.