[LeoPanthera]

> But really, imagine how much power these things have and if you could actually run a free (as in freedom, in the GNU sense) OS on them and really get access to all that power in a handheld device. Only if.

Could you elaborate? What specifically would you do? Because I'm finding it hard to imagine what I'd do with an "open" iPhone that I can't do now, but it's extremely easy to imagine all the horrific security risks that would emerge in what today is most people's primary computing device, storing data about literally their entire lives.

[frfl]

My usage of "handheld" was vague. I meant any portable device (laptops, but also including phones/tablets).

If you're finding it hard to imagine what you can do with a device that _does not_ restrict what you can do with it, then you're likely fine in the Apple ecosystem, that's fair and okay. Some people aren't, you'll just have to take my word for it, I don't wanna write an essay here and you're probably not interesting in reading all that.

Security risk is a common one that comes up. Google used that to justify locking down sideloading recently. Let me take the risk. I bought this device, I should be allowed to make adult decisions right? I'm not downloading stuff off Limewire or a shady website. I'm downloading stuff off of Linux distro repos or F-Droid.

There's a lot more to be said about all this. Including the amount of e-waste created because a device is too old to be supported by manufacturers, yet people run decade(s) old laptops/desktops using free OSs because they can.

Just my 1AM rambling thoughts. Hope some of it makes some sense.

[fooker]

> If you're finding it hard to imagine what you can do with a device that _does not_ restrict what you can do with it

Go on, give some examples.

[freedomben]

Not OP, but here are just a few things I do currently on my Android (phones and tablets):

* Use (true) Firefox w/ extensions or other browsers

* Sideload apps that aren't available in the store (this is increasingly common with open source projects that don't want the headache of dealing with app stores)

* Install my own apps (which I increasingly vibe-code since I'm the only user) and not have to deal with paying Apple or reinstalling every few days or week or whatever

* Write bash and ruby scripts to automate things on my device which often require interacting with system APIs (tmux is my platform for this on Android currently)

* Pin versions of apps that have enshittified or sold to gross companies that harvest data or switch to subscriptions models by copying the APK and re-installing it on new devices

* Install alternate/experimental graphical shells that are frequently innovative and interesting (though rarely useful in the long-term, but it's still fun)

* Option to use other ROMs such as Graphene OS

* Capture packets and proxy traffic to see what my device is doing (this has gotten pretty hard on Android now, but still something I want to do)

* Have an on-device fine-grained firewall to tightly control which apps are allowed network access

There are definitely other things I can't think of at the moment, but I'm not sure why you're being so hostile to GP. Saying that iOS devices are locked down and can't do a lot of stuff doesn't seem like a very controversial opinion, especially on HN.

[fooker]

> Use (true) Firefox w/ extensions or other browsers

No longer true as of this year.

> tmux

typo?

I agree with you about side loading. Apple does not. I wonder if regulations can eventually force their hand.

Some of your other points (scripting, packet sniffing, general shell access and command line tools) are just done differently, and you'd just need new tools of the trade if you actually wanted to do it. Also, a bunch of the things you have mentioned requires unlocking the android bootloader and obtaining root privileges. You can do that to a large extent for ios (jailbreaking), Apple is just more competent about shutting it out than other companies.

[freedomben]

Ah yes, sorry meant to type termux but muscle memory must have autocorrected it to tmux :-D

[frfl]

Thanks for writing it up. I agree with all your points. I stopped myself from replying further to the other commenters - they don't seem to be interested in an actual meaningful calm discussion.

[volemo]

Running goddamn Emacs for one. Running the software I need for work like Python with a full suite of packages and Wolfram Mathematica. Remapping freaking keys and their behaviour. The possibilities are endless!

[blks]

On iPhone?

[volemo]

On an iPad. But sometimes, in a pinch, it can be nice to rerun a script to update some plots, so iPhone as well.

[gilfoy]

Nothing, it’s never anything real and just some fantasy of what they could have if someone else put in an incredible amount of work to achieve something nebulous they got the impression of from a sci-fi book.

They want a cyber deck, except good and useful and apple hardware.

I often find myself wondering why these people aren’t happily using some Android rom and are instead using an iPhone.

[nhod]

I think literally this whole post is about doing stuff on your iPhone that Apple doesn’t want you to do. So maybe start with TFA?

[mvdtnz]

Run a web server exposed through a Cloudflare Tunnel. Write code in one program, compile it in another using a shared filesystem. Write mods and extensions for programs which expose an API or just patch their files if you can figure out how to reverse them. Run programs like ffmpeg or yt-dlp directly on a CLI.

[fooker]

https://apps.apple.com/us/app/ish-shell/id1436902243

https://apps.apple.com/us/app/a-shell/id1473805438

[mvdtnz]

Are you trying to make some kind of point? Use your words.

[gilfoy]

Ah sorry, my comment didn’t cover the 7 people that want to do software development on their iPhone.

[frfl]

Idk, maybe like not being forced to use their new glass UI? Or whatever new UI trend they'll decide to implement.

On a unrestricted OS, I can just switch to a different desktop environment.

If you read the rest of this thread, instead of asking, you'll find plenty examples. But hey, if you like MacOS, great, anyone else's opinions don't matter.

[philipallstar]

Your definition of their product is different to theirs. They're selling a pretty sealed, you-get-what-you-get product. You want a hackable personal computer.

A bit like how you buy a can of Coke and you can't add your own sugar. It just comes with sugar, unless you buy a different product from Coke, which is a fixed choice of sweetener. Saying "other products let you choose whether or not to add that sugar or sweetener" to me doesn't mean that Coke need to change anything.

[gilfoy]

> idk

Yeah, was obvious from the first comment

[F7F7F7]

I'm a heavy Terminal user and run everything from local LLMs to full stack dev (react/python). I dibble and dabble in Blender, Unreal, and Logic Pro. I aimlessly browse the web looking for recipes, 3d printing files, shopping, HN, whatever. I'll occasionally spin up Age of Empire II locally or play some quick games via GeForceNow. I'm in full control of my Synology and Qnap NAS servers and the shit ton of media that's on it.

And I do all of that on my Mac. My 4090 rig is strictly for gaming with my son and my Proxmox Linux retired thin client rigs are for running my household on HA.

Please tell me what I'm missing out on by using a Mac OS device as my daily driver.

[frfl]

You're probably happy. That's great.

If you read the rest of this thread you'll see specific examples others point out.

[chipotle_coyote]

The specific examples in the thread, AFAICT, are about iOS, not macOS, and the person you're responding to specifically mentioned Macs. It's very hard to find examples of "things you cannot do on an Apple Silicon Mac due to Apple-imposed restrictions that you can do on a PC" that aren't pretty esoteric. (Unless you want to argue that the inability to plug in a better third-party GPU is due to Apple-imposed restrictions, which is debatable but defensible.)

[frfl]

If you read my other comment, you'll see Mac specific examples. Examples from my own experience over multiple years.

[fsflover]

Connect screen and keyboard and turn it into a full desktop with desktop apps. Run VMs for insecure operations.

[WorldPeas]

I have fantasies sometimes of a powerful phone that docks into a laptop chassis with expandable I/O like a framework

[PrairieFire]

A future where we carry and manage just one device could be incredible. That said, today, even if iOS weren’t so locked down and more capable of that, I think I’d find myself frustrated. I run on device local llm’s on my iPhone and a heavily quantized 3b parameter model starts to cause the iPhones thermal management to heavily throttle after just a few prompts with light tokens, to the point it’s slower than 1 token per second for inference or response, and the phone gets hot to the touch. Maybe the rumored half iPhone half iPad device could be the eventual platform from which something like this emerges.

[mark_l_watson]

While my main driver is a maxed out MacMini hooked to an Apple Studio monitor, at least once a week I pack up and store my MacMini and plug an iPadPro into my large monitor for a few days.

So, I feel like I routinely experience what we are talking about in this sub-thread. Given a few VPS’s to ssh/mosh into for programming and a keyboard and mouse, this is a workable setup.

The one thing that always gets me to unpack my MacMini and set it up is that even with 16G shared memory on a iPadPro, I can only run local models in a chat-style app. On macOS, my LLM use is mostly embedded in experimental scripts and apps.

[WorldPeas]

exactly. The real shame of these devices is they're 99% of the way there but that last inch of running x script requiring you to whip out a form-identical device that has been blessed with the ability of running uncertified code is maddening to say the least

[WorldPeas]

perhaps that's what they're developing all these "private compute" servers for. Though I would be less than happy if Apple, the last (relatively) untaken hill of the SaaS enshittification wars were to go down that road. In the meantime I will continue to use my hilariously overpowered laptop as a SSH terminal to the machine I actually work on

[fsflover]

Librem 5 is not too powerful, but it works as a desktop.

[WorldPeas]

I've used it as well as an x86 phone running macos and an ipad mini on a lark for a week, at this point in my life as much as I complain, imessage is basically the only secure communication mechanism I can get most people to use

[akho]

Have real ad blocking in the browser.

(which would mitigate a lot of security risks by itself. I also note that people seem to do fine with desktop OSes, despite their outdated security models)

Also, a working foss ecosystem.

[WorldPeas]

I already use a-shell to run python scripts that fetch media, news summaries, server dashboards etc. It's really a shame I can't actually do what I want like with android where I could make custom permanent free apps for myself and do what I pleased throughout the system, executing binaries that interfaced with the real fs or remuxing video, rsyncing to my server.

[RulerOf]

> What specifically would you do?

All kinds of shit.

I'd make locking the phone while the flashlight is operating require pressing the lock button again to wake the screen with no exceptions, so the screen no longer shines in my eyes reducing the effectiveness of the flashlight, and stay palm input stops opening the camera.

I'd hook screen time management of my children's devices—which I perform on my own device—into FaceID instead of requiring a stupid passcode.

You don't have to go far to find areas where iOS could use some customization. But if it's Apple's code, the most useful adjustments are off limits.

Jailbroken iOS was a fantastic platform for the first 9 major releases or so because it had that kind of stuff in it. Now it's "throw a suggestion in the box on our website and we'll ignore it in the order it was received."

[prmoustache]

From what I understand iPhones support external displays out of thebox, so you could use one as your main computer and do any productive stuff like development, video/3d/photos editing, anything really you can do on a computer with the liberty to install open source tools, develop/open drivers for anything connected to usb or bt, etc.

[tartoran]

I'd remove all the fluff that I'm not interested in.

[timeon]

One think would be: permanently installing my own apps, without paying for that option.