[stuckinhell]

"Soon, Mariona joined her new friends on "raids": a few of them would block off a street, throw Molotov cocktails, hand out leaflets, and when the police turned up, scatter in every direction."

okay she threw molotov cocktails, she was lucky she wasn't imprisoned.

[corpoposter]

I find this a profoundly odd response to the story. Is your intent to excuse her abusive treatment by the religious, medical, and government authorities of a totalitarian regime?

Your comment is treating her with full agency (i.e. "she shouldn't have done anything bad or disruptive") and completely ignoring the agency of the institutions that harmed her (i.e. "what did she expect in response?").

[lkey]

A) She was still a child. B) She was imprisoned, repeatedly, and tortured, as the article discusses. C) Is it your opinion that everyone was "lucky" to live in 1968 Spain under Franco. Or just her?

[HiPhish]

> A) She was still a child.

Please don't call a 17-year old person a child. It's not as if on the night between 17 years, 11 months and 30 days, and 18 years humans undergo some sort of metamorphosis.

[arp242]

Yes I agree, which is probably why we should treat 18-year olds more as children than adults (although obviously they are in-between the two). Brains continue to develop to the age of about 25.

[danaris]

Brains continue to develop through our whole lives.

The study that appeared to show them stopping development at 25 did not have any participants older than 25.

The difference between an 18-year-old and a 24-year-old is much more comparable to the difference between a 24-year-old and a 30-year-old.

We should be treating teenagers much more as adults-in-training, in the sense of meaningfully giving them the tools to succeed as adults, rather than treating them like pure innocent children who must be sheltered from absolutely everything hard, scary, or taboo.

However, as it stands we generally do not do that—hence, in this case, she was indeed a child, and should have been given compassion, better tools, and better chances, not locked up.

[hulitu]

> Brains continue to develop through our whole lives.

After 50 years, they seem to decline.

[foobarchu]

The brain does not fully develop until 25, 18 is simply one of many thresholds where we've decided (in the US) to start officially transitioning children into adulthood. Others include 14-16 (driving), 21 (drinking), and 25 (car rental).

So if 17 can't be called a child, what can? You have to draw the completely arbitrary like somewhere. Do you chose the legal 18 (in the US)? The Hebrew 13? Some other metric?

[arresin]

25. You said it yourself

[wtcactus]

So, people should only be allowed to drink and to vote at 25?

(And probably also drive, it always stuck us in Europe pretty weird you allow minors to drive in the USA as the car can be a very lethal tool).

[kkkqkqkqkqlqlql]

Ah, yes, the Trump approach to ages.

[scoofy]

Nobody wanted her tortured except the criminals torturing her.

Throwing Molotov cocktail is trivially an criminal offense. OP is making it clear that framing it as she was a “free spirit” is ridiculous.

[lkey]

| Nobody wanted her tortured except the criminals torturing her.

Oh, word? It's dope you know the inner thoughts of everyone involved.

| Throwing Molotov cocktail is trivially an criminal offense.

Article didn't say she threw them herself, 'a few' of a group she was part of did. Glad you're taking the maximalist, guilty until proven innocent, position on conviction by association in the Franco Regime.

[scoofy]

I don’t think she’s guilty of anything. If I had a daughter that was engaging in violent political uprisings as a young teen, I’d try my best to get her help. That’s presumably why her parents sent her to a reform program.

My point is the story is disjointed and sad, but there is little cohesive theme aside from pure tragedy, and the narrative presented makes no sense.

[TitaRusell]

You realise Franco was a fascist dictator?

I would sure as hell hope people start throwing Molotov cocktails when someone like that comes into power.

[lkey]

You did not read the article, and it shows.

You: "help", "That’s >- presumably <- why her parents sent her to a reform program."

The article: | [her parents] were so conservative they wouldn't even let Mariona wear trousers.

| "For them, it was a scandal, a stain on the family," she says. "After that, they wouldn't let me out."

| [after she ran away] They immediately reported her as an underage runaway to the authorities, and the moment Mariona was about to board a boat back to Barcelona, she was arrested.

| Mariona wasn't given any explanation [for sending her away] - she only remembers her parents' rage.

| her [second] escape was short lived. Within hours she was bundled into a car with her father and an uncle, and driven back to Madrid.

| Now aged 20, she vowed to never live with her parents again.

| "We suffered a lot too," [her father] told her when she asked him about the family decision to have her locked up in Madrid.

Her parents only care about themselves, 50 years ago and today, if you can't see that, there's something wrong with you.

~~

You: "My point is the story is disjointed and sad, but there is little cohesive theme"

The purpose of the article and the film, as written in the article, which you did not read:

| Reformatories were institutions where girls and young women who refused to conform to the Franco regime's Catholic values were detained - single mothers, girls with boyfriends, lesbians. Girls who'd been sexually assaulted were incarcerated, assuming the blame for their own abuse. Orphans and abandoned girls might also find themselves living behind convent walls.

| The film has contributed to a groundswell of calls for the interned women to be formally recognised under the law as victims of Spain's dictatorship.

| "Women come and tell their stories – it's like a door opened to something unknown, and that's very powerful," says Marina. "People think what happened in their own home was an isolated incident. We try to say: this history isn't individual, it was systematic."

| Her mother Mariona still doubts her memory sometimes.

| But, she says, "seeing it all reflected in the film, that gives it the weight of truth."

[scoofy]

>Her parents only care about themselves, 50 years ago and today

>>Oh, word? It's dope you know the inner thoughts of everyone involved.

[arp242]

> Throwing Molotov cocktail is trivially an criminal offense.

This is a protest against a fascist regime we're talking about. I don't know the exact context of any of this because I'm not Spanish, don't speak the language, and don't really know all that much about the nuance of 1968 Spain. I'm fairly sure you're just as ignorant of this as I am but the difference is that I'm withholding strong judgement one way or the other instead of jumping on one detail.

I do know that throwing a bunch of tea you don't own in the sea is also trivially a criminal offence. Kicking the shit out of an SS-officer is also trivially a criminal offence. etc. etc. You can have a long discussion about when violence is or isn't justified. I don't know enough about this specific situation to have a strong opinion. But pretty much everyone agrees that at some point you need to look beyond the law and trying to reduce this to just a matter of the law is massively naïve at best.

[hitarpetar]

it's Francoist Spain. people were imprisoned for much less (hence the molotovs)