[koiueo]

> nothing on screen except for the text you're editing

Just wanted to clarify, to me that's timeless. Modern would be having modern menus, pop-up configuration screen et al.. All the candy that appeals to a less experienced user, who worked with Idea, Sublime of VS code before.

[skydhash]

There's a reason there's no beginner car, no beginner guitar, and no beginner drill. Those are either tools or toys. If all you want is to type some text, notepad (or the equivalent in other OS) is enough. But programmers do more with text. So they should know what tools provide those and how to use those tools. But then you'll find a lot of programmers barely go one level up from notepad with their tools.

[Myrmornis]

I guess I'm not really sure that menus are modern. But anyway I hate the stubbornness over the vanilla emacs UI. The nonsense in the menus and the stupid pixelated pictures of scissors or whatever.

But I've never really got the idea of why emacs should appeal to less experienced users. I think that's misguided: the entire point of Emacs is that you write some emacs lisp. If you're not interested in writing any lisp, then you definitely shouldn't bother with emacs (I used emacs intensively for 20 years and am the author of Emacs packages). And if you're less experienced and looking for Idea/Sublime experience then at this point in your life there's a good chance you aren't interested in writing lisp.