[epolanski]

As an European, I'm kinda pissed we don't retaliate the duties.

I'd rather take a financial hit than act so weak and passive.

I swear between chat control, selling out EU's privacy to US tech companies (you can check how many times Palantir & others met commission members, it's public), the insanity of the ICE ban and this tariffs passivity I'm very unhappy.

Also, it's too convenient to only focus on material goods when the biggest US exports are gazillions in financial and IT services.

[bruce511]

Leaving aside the other (valid) items in your list, reciprocal tarifs really aren't helpful.

Firstly, they're unnecessary. Just do what Canadians are doing. Stop buying US goods. Stop going to the US on holiday. Shop keepers get the hint real quick.

Secondly, they just make goods more expensive for you. They gave no impact on American producers.

So it may feel like the EU is doing nothing. But really, there's nothing they need to do. Tarifs are a tax levied by the US govt on US citizens. Sure demand might drop a bit in the short term, but that just drives producers to find other markets. Which in the long run is a good thing.

[Spivak]

> Stop buying US goods.

If only there was a way to make US goods more expensive to discourage their purchase :P

[bruce511]

Sure, that's one way to approach it. But I feel like the Canadian approach is better.

You don't need to coerce fellow citizens, indeed the point is far more effective when it's not coerced.

And if not enough citizens care to make the point, then they're also not going to thank you for rising prices.

[epolanski]

> Leaving aside the other (valid) items in your list, reciprocal tarifs really aren't helpful.

You have completely missed my point: I don't care about them being helpful or not. It's not about the financial but political aspect.

[bartread]

I don’t think GP has missed the point at all. If the “political aspect” brings no concrete benefits for EU citizens, what’s the point?

[epolanski]

It's asinine to think that higher taxes on American goods, which should include services, would not negatively impact US companies.

[derriz]

I feel the exact opposite (regarding reciprocal tariffs).

If your neighbor makes demands and threatens to shoot themselves in the foot if you don't accept, responding by shooting yourself in the face does not seem like a good tactic.

US tariff policy gifts European manufacturers with a competitive advantage.

A small example from a hobby of mine: electronic music, synthesis, audio gadgets, etc. The last decade or two has seen an explosion of innovation in this space driven by small boutique outfits on both sides of the Atlantic. This has only been made possible because of access to Chinese expertise in manufacturing.

The effect of US tariffs is to hurt everyone - but hurt US based companies more. If based in the EU, you pay 0% duty on your low-value-add Chinese inputs and sell finished products to customers - duty free to 450m inhabitants of the EU and with 15% tariff to the US. The same operation based in the US - pays 100% or more on inputs - making it uncompetitive in both markets (for any reasonable range of margin). This is just one small niche/corner of the economy where US-based companies are seeing profits being squeezed.

The other reason to avoid emulating US policy regarding tariffs, is the impact of the flip-flopping and uncertainty on industrial and manufacturing investment. How can anyone intelligently make a long-term (decades) investment decision to build a manufacturing facility in the US when at any moment, your input costs could increase 100%? Or the tariffs you were relying on to allow you to compete with foreign operations could suddenly be lowered as part of a "deal". Or they could go up and down within the space of months or even weeks? Or that in 3 years, the policy will be complete reversed?

Introducing uncertainty and volatility into trade policy might seem like a winning move if you view the world in game theoretic terms - that the global economy is a zero-sum game. I feel that the current US executive sees the world this way - if any other country is doing well, then it must be at the expense of the USA and vice-versa. And this basic misunderstanding of trade and economics is driving these self-harming policies.

As a fellow European, given we have no influence over US policy, I suggest standing back as the US re-learns the painful lesson of history regarding trying to stimulate your economy by making industrial and manufacturing inputs more expensive and adding volatility and uncertainty to the business environment. It sucks for everyone globally because the world isn't zero-sum, the USA suffering doesn't benefit others, so the best policy for Europe is to just refuse to play the game and sit it out.

[lesuorac]

> I'd rather take a financial hit than act so weak and passive.

What's passive about what Europeans are doing?

They marked products as USA-origin and sales of those products are way down (or they just pulled the USA products from the shelf). It's basically an infinite tariff.

[tim333]

The world's been through many past periods of tariffs. Generally the countries that do a lot end up hurting themselves - see say Argentina, near wealthiest in the world around 1890, now way down the list. Neighbours like Brazil that thought we'll tariff too have been meh. Countries like Singapore that went the other way and had zero tariffs got rich - from not much per capita to overtaking the US in that case.

[cardiffspaceman]

Argentina is a deeper example. A mfr can/could build a plant in Tierra del Fuego and avoid tariffs. But it has been cheaper to fly to Manhattan and buy your iPhone than to buy whatever cellphones are available in Buenos Aires.

[nutjob2]

> As an European, I'm kinda pissed we don't retaliate the duties.

"Someone is trying to shoot me so I'll shoot myself in the foot in retaliation"

Sometimes, doing nothing is the best move. Doing something self destructive to make yourself feel better makes no sense at all.

[DaSHacka]

> Doing something self destructive to make yourself feel better makes no sense at all.

Yet arguably, perhaps the most European move of all