[m417z]

Hi, Windhawk author here. Nice to see it on Hacker News.

This is just one Windhawk mod, submitted by a community member. There are hundreds others. Windhawk was created to simplify Windows customization and to make it more accessible, both for developers and users. For a more detailed introduction, check out the Windhawk release blog post:

https://ramensoftware.com/windhawk

[y-c-o-m-b]

Thanks for making this a safe place to modify Windows in a community-driven fashion. I mentioned it in a comment below, but I use the "Multirow taskbar for Windows 11" mod and it's been a godsend for keeping things more organized as before. I appreciate you and the mod community.

[neuroelectron]

How do you know it's safe?

[tn1]

It's C++ programs in a Userscript format, which are compiled with a bundled instance of clang. Windhawk shows diffs of version changes, and most programs aren't much longer than a couple dozen lines, so pretty easy to visually verify

[rikafurude21]

I've come across Windhawk before but the mods being just C++ programs seemed a little suspicious to me, how do you make sure the mods dont include malware?

[m417z]

When you install or run a program, how do you make sure it doesn't include malware? I assume that you check for the author's record/reputation, and perhaps look at the source code if it's available.

It's similar with Windhawk mods. The GitHub and X profiles are verified to be the profiles of the author, so you can decide whether you trust them. The source code is available, so you can inspect it as well. Mods are single-file and usually short, which makes it easier to review than an average program.

[__alexander]

No disrespect but Windhawk’s process injection loader code was cut and paste from malware source code. I can’t imagine how many AV/EDR alerts that project has generated from using ROR API hashing and PEB symbol traversing.

[orbital-decay]

To review these third-party mods one needs to understand C++, Windows programming, and fairly obscure theming-related parts of its internals, some of which are undocumented/reverse engineered, and many have poorly understood side effects. This is a pretty specific combination of skills that slowly approaches arcane status, even if might feel otherwise to some. But again, larger apps are indeed harder to review than this.

(this particular mod is 100% innocuous, though)

[deburo]

Huh, with AI you can always "review" those mods. They are small enough. Anyway they are distributed via the creator's github repo, so it's already somewhat of a peer reviewed mechanism.

[nodja]

Windhawk mods are distributed as source code and WH itself compiles it. It works the same way usescripts work with tampermonkey/violentmonkey on browsers.

If a mod includes malware it'll be very obvious as mods are usually small.

[3eb7988a1663]

Top tier malware can be incredibly terse and sophisticated. The trigger line to execute the xz exploit was a `.` in a build script. You are probably fine do to sheer obscurity - nerds who yearn for a Win9X experience are low in number and might only be running it for a laugh in a VM.

[y-c-o-m-b]

It's not just for "nerds" if that's what you're implying. I use the "Multirow taskbar for Windows 11" Windhawk mod because I recently upgraded from Windows 10 to Windows 11, which removed the ability to have more than one row on the taskbar.

There's a malware risk in literally every piece of software. Windows itself behaves as malware with all the telemetry it gathers.

[3eb7988a1663]

The tiny fraction of computer users who have the capability and interest to do this qualifies as nerds in my book. I did not realize this was still a pejorative on a forum where we are mostly all technical experts in some domain or another. It is your computer - go nuts.

[eviks]

What nerd capability do you need to install an app, type in a search bar and click install?

[hulitu]

> Top tier malware can be incredibly terse and sophisticated.

Just like Windows. /s

[Refreeze5224]

Windows is weird. The way these mods work is injecting code into different processes, which is a very common malware technique. Keyloggers in particular work similarly to Windhawk. And that is not a swipe at Windhawk, that is just how Windows has you do this type of thing.

[reactordev]

What’s really fun is hooking into the WM_PAINT event from the target processes main thread and then drawing your own controls over whatever was rendered…

Overlays, AIMBots, Discord, Flight Sim Software, we all do it…

[__del__]

i did this in the 90s for some kewl showoff programs generating something or other. i assumed there would be a modern graphics framework and API now. still just intercepting that paint event eh?

[blacklion]

`LD_PRELOAD` works on UNIX-like systems too.

[anthk]

Thanks to LD_PRELOAD you could downgrade tons of OpenGL effects and enforce some settings for high end games and make them playable with good speeds on legacy systems.

Also to force texture sizes and whatnot.

I wish Wine/Proton had options for those, to override antialising, texture sizes, rendering resolution and everything.

[__del__]

that's an interesting pursuit. we've got the code, or at least we've got the stubs calling windows dlls.

[Lammy]

FUD: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear,_uncertainty,_and_doubt

I'm so sick of people telling me to BE AFRAID. If you want to live without the risk of a little danger, go live in prison.

[rikafurude21]

No one told you to be afraid, install anything you want on your computer. Personally I just dont want to deal with getting my logins and keys stolen. It'd be very annoying.

[izacus]

Then stop accusing people of being criminals when they share their project here.

[perching_aix]

> If you want to live without the risk of a little danger, go live in prison.

You have a very interesting idea of prison life.

In any case, labeling this a FUD I find to be a rather ill-spirited characterization. "Be cautious, not afraid." It is difficult to exercise caution without being aware of the risks, and this is a real risk.

But since we're getting all philosophical, it also hampers the exploration of the space between uncontrolled safety + original vision <-> controlled safety + a total loss of that vision. Which I find is what a lot of the pleas towards "freedom" actually turn out to be; an obstruction of curiosity and rigor that would otherwise yield a more robust portfolio of options. The Monkey's Paw edition of the idea, where freedom is just another word for the unknown. The ability to do better, and an active choice not to.

If I think about when I usually take on operational risks at work confidently, it comes down to two things: knowing what might go wrong, and having a contingency plan. It is not going YOLO. Note the emphasis on taking on risks (so these are not unavoidable risks).

Contrast this with what was said. You're appealing to the risk both remaining unknown and staying unavoidable, while being fully aware that people do not maintain contingencies for this. How is this any reasonable? Is "rolling the dice on getting their systems infected" vs. "just getting their OS look different" really what you think people are looking to spice up their life with?

This is not a knock on the project or the community mind you, it's a knock on your idea of preferring to keep things yeeing and hawing. Something which I can assure you I'm growing equally if not more tired of than purportedly "having to be afraid". Especially given how I increasingly struggle to suspend my disbelief when people claim they're now being told all the time how they should "be afraid", and how they're now supposedly living in terror because of it, as the innocent victims they are. People blatantly mischaracterizing reasonable concerns as FUD over and over kinda does that to you. I think the trendy word for this is "performative"?

Between having to choose "not telling people about dangers so that those with an inability to properly self-regulate their anxiety don't go toast" and "always leading with the danger and safety information", maybe the way forward instead is having appropriate spaces for these? Cause I'd argue in that case, the extents the post you replied to went is pretty okay for this forum in my view. They know that arbitrary code is submitted, so they're wondering how malware is screened. Big deal.

[Lammy]

> You have a very interesting idea of prison life.

That was intentional, because not only are you trapped and told exactly when and where to go by the obnoxious Cult Of Security, but every once in a while Windows Update and Windows Defender will come along and shiv you in the bathroom. Rev your system fans the moment you let your computer go “idle”, drain your battery in your bag, reboot out from under you, delete all your keygens and tell you it's for your benefit, and constantly hash your files and report your unique usage patterns to not only Microsoft but the NSA-weaponized Internet infrastructure between you and them. So-called security is inherently the panopticon just like prison.

> your idea of preferring to keep things yeeing and hawing

Hell yeah, at least my intent comes through. You may choose not to live free, but please respect that some of us do and are willing to have fun toys with community reputation :)

There's nothing on my Windows machine that could be leaked that hasn't already been leaked by Experian, AT&T, Snowflake, a million other breaches, probably lots of breaches we've never even heard about. My personal files back up to my mesh-VPNed NAS on a regular automated basis, and I enjoy a read+write Samba share and protection from cryptolockers simultaneously thanks to automated monthly/weekly/daily ZFS snapshots on my NAS. The yee-est of haws!

[perching_aix]

The intent sure comes through (despite your attempts to conceal it), the reasoning doesn't. And it continues not to, not the least because of the desire for superiority relentlessly taking over you, muddying your rationale with persistent smug mockery and creative interpretations. So unfortunately no, I'll have to kindly refuse your request to respect all this.

[Lammy]

> (despite your attempts to conceal it)

Huh? I am very open about what I like and why.

[emeril]

thank you for making modern windows usable - it has made the transition from xp/7 to 10/11 more tolerable