[hdgvhicv]

Voting doesn’t help. You need to win hearts and minds, and the synergy of resources available between the trillion dollar industries like AI and Marketing and you makes that a losing battle too.

People want this stuff. People want ring doorbells, they want age verification, they want government control. Think of the children/criminals/immigrants.

Voting won’t help.

[martin-t]

Voting doesn't work because people are not smart enough to think multiple steps ahead of people who are professionals at this.

Voting doesn't work because everybody votes on everything, not just people who understand the subject matter.

Voting doesn't work because it's impossible to express nuanced choice - you vote for a candidate or party as a whole, not on specific policies. The number of parties is much smaller than the number combinations of policies so some opinions can't be expressed at all.

[lucianbr]

Those are arguments why voting does not produce a perfect outcome. That's different than "voting doesn't work". Using arguments like yours nothing can ever work.

Society is complex and there will always be someone somewhere that can influence an outcome where he/she doesn't understand the subject matter. Hence, nothing works and can ever work.

"Let's just give up" is the only conclusion I can see. Hardly useful.

Can you give an example of something that works by your standards?

[martin-t]

It does not work to produce a society where people are actually the ones holding power and where laws side with those in the right - i.e. the current legal system anywhere does not represent a consistent moral system and is not even close.

You're right it's too strong as a general statement but it was in response to a specific issue - those in power wanting to take yet another bit of power from the general population - (this time and in this particular country) by banning VPNs.

People always vote based on the most pressing issues to them - immigration, taxes, abortions, LGBT rights (random list which is different in every country). Minor issues fall between the cracks until they become so bad they become pressing to enough people.

> "Let's just give up" is the only conclusion I can see. Hardly useful.

Then you're reading it wrong. I listed specific issues - the solution is to find solutions to those issues.

Here's a couple suggestions I'd like to see gamed out and tested:

- The right to vote not as a function of age but a test of reasoning ability and general knowledge.

- Limiting the amount of time a person can perform politics (including professional lobbying) to 5-10 years.

- Splitting laws into areas of expertise and potentially requiring tests to prove understanding to gain the right to vote on those areas for both the general population and politicians.

- Replacing FPTP with more nuanced voting systems.

These are just a few random suggestions described briefly. When I do this, people start nitpicking and then I have to reply with obvious solutions to surface issues - I encourage everyone to instead think how to make this work (yes, in an adversarial environment) instead of just trying to shoot it down.

[lucianbr]

Here's how just one of your proposals has worked out in reality:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literacy_test

Democracy is a complicated difficult thing. If you think you can fix it after a 5 minute reflection, think some more, read more. It's way, way harder than that. A lot of smart people have thought a lot about it, and clearly good ideas are in very short supply. Think more humbly about the subject, please.