[toyg]

What? - US developer salary: 60k per year (cheap areas etc etc). Over three years: 180k. - Foreign visa: 50k per year + 10k one off. Over three years: 160k.

And of course, the foreigner is locked into the company for X years, whereas a local can piss off after three months.

Note: I say that as an Italian-born UK resident who looked into the US visa system and found it, er, suboptimal for everyone involved except corporations.

[raverbashing]

Oh, so you've looked into the H1-B system

But do you know anyone that's actually employed like that?

I know several

- None of them get payed less than their colleagues

- They are usually already at the "top of the chain", it's difficult for new/better job opportunities to show up. Inside the US it may be more difficult, surely, but they have no problem leaving the job and going elsewhere (and H1-B is a little less restrictive in swapping jobs than some work permits in Europe)

One of the main issues today is the time it takes to apply for a Green Card, some of them are in their nth H1-B renewal now with little perspective of getting a Green Card

[blinkingled]

I worked on a H1B for 9 years before getting my Green Card and I saw two types of people working on H1B - people that were adequate for their jobs for which the company did not find enough people (qualified ones not the under/overqualified) and extraordinary people with specific skills in high demand. Both class were paid reasonably well, above average salaries.

[zpk]

If we are using anecdotal evidence, I knew several paid less than their colleagues at my last job. And they were hired, because of that very reason, cheaper restricted labor. Its not hard for me to imagine in a country where labor force has been at odds with employers the last 30 years that employers would want to import in cheaper labor. India has been exporting cheap labor for the past 200 years, in fact its part of the Tata and Infosys business model here. Using the guise of an engineering shortage goes over a lot better than saying lets suppress wages by importing talent.

[raverbashing]

Well, if they go to work for Tata or other similar SW sweatshops, that's an issue they should have investigated before taking that job.

Today there's Glassdoor (and others) and not knowing if your salary is competitive or not should be a factor in accepting a job overseas.

Especially in SW engineering good labour != cheap labour.

[zpk]

So we are going to ignore the 800lb gorilla? We will ignore the fact these firms which are the largest applicants for visas are being investigated by the FBI. And conversely think that Microsoft is doing this not for cheap labor, and there is no PR spin whatsoever around the 'Engineering Shortage' topic. I couldn't buy that.

[raverbashing]

No, it's not to be ignored, if the FBI is investigating that's a start

But just don't throw away the H1-B system altogether