[gabrielgio]

I don't think I understand what you mean. Do you mean wayland is not usable with nvidia proprietary driver? I remember that being annoying but possible many year ago (with sway --my-next-gpu-wont-be-nvidia thingy).

But if you use really old nvidia gpu you can have a mixed experience with wayland. Which is a fair problem to complain, but you can't blame that on wayland and call that lack of freedom. That problem was caused by the lack of freedom coming from nvidia gpus and how locked down they are and how nvidia for many year has been hostile towards linux desktop.

[user3939382]

The “what’s the harm” here is the systemd conversation all over again basically. If you pipe everything through a single point of failure black box users have already lost, when you combine it binary blob drivers that shouldn’t exist it’s worse. Linux is doomed in achieving its most important goals which are user freedom, not someone’s idea of pretty UI imposed at the expense of that. If that’s what users want they should buy a Mac. If you want to get locked out of your OS for eye candy we have that.

[ColonelPhantom]

Where is this Wayland black box then? If anything, Wayland made this situation significantly better: the X11 server was exactly this 'single point of failure black box' you are describing. Wayland replaces this with a much simpler protocol with multiple independent implementations (notably Mutter/gnome-shell, KWin, wlroots-based ones such as sway, and Smithay-based ones such as niri).

[api]

Open source has never achieved user freedom.

It’s achieved developer and very tech savvy IT pro freedom. If you can deal with command lines and debugging systems you are not a user. You’re a computer professional.

If OSS wanted to bring freedom to users its primary focus would be radical simplification and UI/UX.

[jasonvorhe]

What nonsense, especially if framed in a such an absolutist way leaving no room for nuance. Millions of people are storing their data on self hosted or 3rd party run managed OSS services on multiple platforms. Sure, it is not all perfect, UX might be an issue here and there but compared to having to relearn using some proprietary app redesign every other year because some Product Manager needed a promotion, a lot of OSS stuff is perfectly usable, stable and secure.

[api]

> Millions of people are storing their data on self hosted or 3rd party run managed OSS services on multiple platforms.

That's open source being used by developers to provide a closed service to users. Users experience it as an opaque closed service.

SaaS backed by open source is actually the most closed model of software, more closed than closed-source software run locally.

[user3939382]

That’s because of extractive economics from tech not because of any failure or weakness of open source. If tech economy was in equilibrium open source would be massively popular. Polished alternatives are subsidies by extraction economics.

[NoGravitas]

I don't understand how proprietary drivers with Wayland are supposed to be a bigger problem than proprietary drivers with X11, could you explain?

Personally, I've never used a proprietary driver with either.