[Androsynth]

When I used to live in SF, I would always go on walks and explore the city. I found that it would take several visits before I could fully remember the details of a new route or area, but once I knew that place I would move onto a new area. This was enjoyable and I got to see the innards of a beautiful city.

Now this? Congratulations, you have turned a peaceful and enjoyable experience into a slot machine. Now rather than enjoying where I am, I can enjoy hearing my phone go DING! You will lose all connection to the places you go. Rather than rely on my own memory, which takes a few trips, I will just go to a neighborhood once, cross it off my checklist and probably never go back. Because going back wont give me the exp I need to level up and release endorphins.

Gamifaction is the public relations term for addiction.

Anyway, get off my lawn, yada yada...

[evan_]

> Congratulations, you have turned a peaceful and enjoyable experience into a slot machine.

So don't use it?

[Androsynth]

well obviously. But I want others to see gamification for what it really is. The decision to use gamification in your products is similar to the decision to add fiberglass to cigarettes in the mid 20th century. Executives at tobacco companies didnt think it was bad, they just knew it would increase profits.

Obviously this app does not have the same scope as cigarettes. But slowly more and more products/games are moving towards this model. The AAA game industry very quickly adopted zynga-esque addiction mechanics rather than 'fun' mechanics.

edit: before I get downvoted for what might seem like a ridiculous comparison, let me give some context.

About a month ago, one of my favorite MMOs ever, and imo the greatest MMO ever made, Vanguard:SOH was changed from subscription to F2P by its owner SOE. VG:SOH is the deepest, most complex MMO ever created and has a huge world. However once it went F2P, SOE turned it into essentially a zynga game. It changed from an rpg to an item-driven grind fest (ie keep grinding these same quests and you can get epic loot). Then you can buy xp potions to make leveling go by faster. In short they turned it from a rpg into slot machine. With a consistent and easy path to get your endorphin bursts.

Now this isn't that different than what every other AAA game studio is doing to their games (except maybe Valve). The path is clear to them. The term gamification exists because non-game companies want to take advantage of this model. But what they don't understand is that they are making shallow, heartless products that guide you towards their goals rather than making something fun and enjoyable. In other words, the cigarette analogy is perfectly apt. Cigarettes have been made optimally efficient to cause addiction whereas previously they had just been an enjoyable experience and not nearly as addictive. Addiction profit is a gold mine.

[leocassarani]

For the record (and while I know it's beside the point you were making), the "adding fiberglass to cigarettes" claim is pure bullshit.

See the Snopes article on the subject: http://www.snopes.com/business/alliance/menthol.asp

[recursive]

In the case of vanguard, you don't have the option to have the old, ungamified, version. (Can a game not be gamified?) In the case of walking around, you can still do it the same way you always have, if you prefer. What's the problem here?

[Androsynth]

A game can be fun; it can be deep and complex...or it can be like farmville. The problem is that companies are moving in droves towards Farmville type products because addiction is more profitable. I would like this community, as the vanguard of tech development, to see that there is a problem with this.

[scott_s]

I don't see this as gamification. This is just an automatic way of putting pins on a map.

[Androsynth]

It fills up your progress bar as you perform their actions. That is the definition of gamification.

[scott_s]

Perhaps it fits yours, but not mine. I consider gamification as adding mechanisms to some other activity (such as participating in a community) to turn it into a game. While the idea was inspired by a game, I don't see any more "gamification" here than I do in keeping track of, say, how many friends one has on Facebook. There's no reward system, no leader boards. It's just a record of travel.

[iamdave]

>I consider gamification as adding mechanisms to some other activity (such as participating in a community) to turn it into a game.

Perform action, receive reward, repeat, collect more rewards.

That in a lot of definitions is a game. Fog of World, you perform an action by travelling, unlock badges, repeat, collect more badges. That sounds like the very definition of gamification.

[corporalagumbo]

Not to pick a fight, but is there something specific about this product that you feel crosses the line? To me your complaint has a similar ring to Plato's on writing (http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/wordscape/museum/plato.html). My point is that technologies such as this app have a long lineage, have faced similar complaints, and eventually the complaints disappear as we incorporate the technologies and move on. You might be right that a certain magic is lost, but overall the trend is strongly towards cognitive efficiency at the expense of magic. Or am I missing your point?

[Androsynth]

Thats why I made the 'get off my lawn' comment, because I know I was coming off as a bit of a crank :)

In response to evan_'s comment, I give an explanation that describes in a bit more detail why I feel gamification is bad in general. So the first paragraph I wrote was a 'the magic is lost' rant, and the second is an angry rant at gamification. I think it is bad and you can see in my other comment for a partial reason why.

I have nothing against this particular product other than the progress bars. If the magic is lost, its lost. But the addictive mechanics that are springing up in more and more web/mobile applications are a disturbing trend. We, the business class, have found out how to make slot machines cool and we're all slapping each other on the back as we make money hand over fist while turning countless customers into addicts.

(I dont believe this product will turn anyone into an addict and I may be making comments that seem extreme when taken out of context. This may be a deeper issue than can be discussed on a internet forum)