[unnamed76ri]

I’ve been reading Influence by Robert Cialdini and just finished a disturbing section about how we are wired to obey an authority figure even when it causes harm. In this instance, the 911 dispatcher was the authority figure. Sad story.

[nrhrjrjrjtntbt]

Causes harm is the hard thing to know. In the London Grenfell fire the dispatchers said stay in the appartment. This is correct advice, except when some dodgy supply chain middleman puts effectively what amounts to gunpowder up all the external walls.

[jimmydddd]

During the 9/11 attacks in NYC, the folks in the second tower were instructed to stay in the building after a plane struck the first building. Also good advice until a second plane struck.

[analog8374]

It's like we're wired to trust what we're told over what we see.

The one doing the telling is the confident man on tv and the people around us.

What's funny is, 9 out of 10 people are totally credulous. They'll swallow any foolish thing as long as a authority says it. That last guy is a skeptic. BUT if everybody around him AND the authority are saying the thing, then he believes it. Because that's reasonable, right?

[nrhrjrjrjtntbt]

I think it is worth breaking into 2 situations.

The clear enemy authority figure. I.e. cop wants you to talk. Dont talk.

But then there is the if you do A you might die if you do B you also might die you have no probabilities, just your instinct plus what you are being told to do. And you have 10 seconds to decide.

[croes]

In such cases how do you in advance what causes harm? Waiting for the ambulance or driving yourself? People died also because they didn’t wait for an ambulance.

[rogerrogerr]

(Not GP): Heart attacks and strokes are the two things where I will always load family members into the car and get to the hospital as quickly as practicable. Time is brain, and time is heart. I’d call 911 on the way and have them notify the hospital what’s going on.

I figure that if I’m a 10 minute drive from the hospital, it’s highly unlikely that lights and sirens will get to me and then to the hospital quicker than I can do only the second leg. If they want to meet me halfway, fine - but if they aren’t there, I’m not waiting.

Everything else? Sure, we can wait for the ambulance. I can control bleeding or whatever and you’ll live through some pain without lasting side effects. But if there isn’t blood going to an organ, we are gonna get that fixed ASAP.

[burntoutgray]

From the caller's perspective the dispatcher is the authority figure. But that person is just at the bottom of a pyramid. The supervisor, the section manager all the way to the CEO and shareholders.

[gryfft]

See also the Milgram Experiment.

[croes]

Doesn’t fit here because you don’t know if obeying or ignoring causes the harm.

[gryfft]

The comment I replied to mentioned Cialdini's Influence:

> just finished a disturbing section about how we are wired to obey an authority figure even when it causes harm.

I mentioned the Milgram Experiment specifically in the context of this comment.