[runako]

There should be a tenure element to power access. The reductio is a well-funded adversary should not be able to buy all the power in a region just because they are able to pay more.

Our utilities are generally regulated, and have some mandate to provide power to residents. If a datacenter creates a sudden dislocation in the demand for power that causes massive unplanned CapEx by the utility, what is the argument in favor of longtime residents having to pay for that CapEx?

[otterley]

> There should be a tenure element to power access

We have a tenure-based system for water rights in the Western US, and it's not without its problems. See, e.g., https://www.globalwaterforum.org/2022/11/03/the-paradox-of-u...

[JumpCrisscross]

> should be a tenure element to power access

What does this mean?

> what is the argument in favor of longtime residents having to pay for that CapEx?

Jobs and tax base. These benefit the middle class more than the poor, hence my redistribution proposal.

[runako]

Data centers notoriously do not bring much in the way of either jobs or tax base.

Meta's planned gigawatt-scale DC in Louisiana is projected to create ~500 jobs. If energy prices for the state increase by only 20%, that does not feel like something the people of the region would obviously want to do if given the choice.

[hattmall]

I don't understand why the energy rates for residents should go up at all? Why isn't the data center paying for it? Even my personal bill gets more expensive per kwh the more I use, shouldn't a data center using exponentially more power just pay a higher per kwh rate, honestly to the point that they are making it cheaper for normal customers??

[JumpCrisscross]

> shouldn't a data center using exponentially more power just pay a higher per kwh rate

Power law pricing is a good idea.

[JumpCrisscross]

> If energy prices for the state increase by only 20%

Are there forecasts energy prices will increase 20% long term?

[runako]

Georgia, where data center construction has been booming, has seen rate increases significantly higher than this. IIRC there have been 6 rate increases in the last 2 years, with a 24% increase in 2024 alone.

I don't believe any of this was part of the forecast of 10 years ago, so I would not trust a long-term forecast issued now.

[shalmanese]

> There should be a tenure element to power access.

NIMBYism, but applied to grid power!

[runako]

I actually think we should have more power plants, and we should generate a lot more power.

At the same time, it is not obvious that utility systems in communities are equipped to respond well to actors who are 1) not local 2) high growth 3) demand rapid deployment 4) are willing to spend flagrantly to move fast.

Put another way: should OpenAI be allowed to pay (say) 10x the going rate[1] for electricity in a region in exchange for being given the right to consume 90% of the electricity generated in that region? What principles should govern this balance and the acceptable price changes? How do those principles extend to determining who should cover CapEx for expansion? Does Texas need the 57 permanent jobs in Abilene that Stargate will generate so badly that millions of Texans should subsidize the richest startup ever?

1 - this is a hypothetical, but OpenAI's Stargate project in Texas is projected to cost multiples of the total assets of any of the large multi-state power generators in the country. None of the utilities are setup to engage with a buyer like that.

[gowld]

> what is the argument in favor of longtime residents having to pay for that CapEx?

The argument is that people like air conditioning and lights, so they will pay, or leave.

[runako]

If the existing power supply is sufficient to supply the A/C and lights for an area, but a new buyer comes in and offers 10% more $ to purchase all the power currently being generated, there exist also the options of 1) make the new customer pay a lot more to deliver power quickly or 2) simply deny the connection rights (presumably much easier to do when talking about gigawatt-scale requests).