[dataflow]

> Systematic widespread slavery is obviously different from using the threat or application of violence to compel unpaid labor in smaller-scale scenarios,

Eh? Violence? For refusing mandatory upkeep around your home and neighborhood? Are you writing this from North Korea or something? How is fining you such a foreign concept where you live that your government has to resort to violence to get you to do some upkeep as a homeowner?

> but both are de facto slavery and both are direct violations of the amendment. If you wanna argue that there is a concept of a "lesser violation" and that it makes some forms of slavery OK, be my guest but even children don't buy arguments like that.

This was the "strongest plausible interpretation" of what I've been saying this whole time?

Children buy perfectly well the idea that requiring homeowners to do some upkeep around them is not even remotely "slavery". Just like how they understand perfectly well that making them clean their rooms is not "slavery" either. They understand it's not only ridiculous, but outright insulting to human dignity to suggest that these are comparable to slavery. Adults on HN are the ones who somehow struggle with this, not children.

[samdoesnothing]

> Eh? Violence? For refusing mandatory upkeep around your home and neighborhood? Are you writing this from North Korea or something? How is fining you such a foreign concept where you live that your government has to resort to violence to get you to do some upkeep as a homeowner?

What happens when you don't pay the fine? What happens when you resist the armed men at your door?

> outright insulting to human dignity to suggest that these are comparable to slavery

What's outright insulting to human dignity is authoritarians justifying slavery on the basis of "other forms are worse".

[dataflow]

> What happens when you don't pay the fine?

Garnish your wages? Freeze your bank account? Put a lien on your house? I don't know, I've never been blessed with the urge to die on this hill. They sure as heck have a million options besides injuring you, and they won't injure you unless you do something other than merely refusing labor or payment. "He didn't pay the fine, let's go beat him up till he does" is not how things work in my part of the world.

Unlike, you know, actual slavery.

[samdoesnothing]

Ah yes, our wonderful governments won't beat us up if we don't comply, they'll just take our possessions and money so we don't have food, shelter, transportation, or the capacity to generate income. Totally non-violent.

"political power flows from the barrel of a gun" - Mao