[marcosdumay]

> You can blame Taylor for that.

No, you can't. Taylor was a huge advocate for standardizing people's work so it could be studied and improved. He was also an advocate for well-studied people to go and teach workers how to do their jobs, and a not intense advocate for thinking ill of workers based on everything you can expect from a rich 19 century guy.

What he advocate a lot against was doing power games against workers or automatically dismissing everything they say.

[hinkley]

Standardizing people’s work turned them into automatons to be studied and improved by a management elite.

Which all came crashing down when Deming had to go to Japan to get people to listen to his ideas and triggered a massive recession in the US.

Deming and (to a lesser extent) Goldratt pull the employees back into the conversation. Tether are closest to the problem and even if they can’t solve it, they can help you shape the answer. Taylor was neofeudalism and he can rot.

[marcosdumay]

The one thing people are complaining upthread is not Taylor's fault. He actively fought against it.

The stuff you are complaining on the first line is. But also, Taylor was an advocate for listening what the workers had to say too. You can't really blame Taylorism on him, he invented only the mildest parts of it.

And that said, Deming advocated standardizing work too. You just can't run a factory without doing that.

[hinkley]

I can’t blame Taylorism on Taylor?

Collaboration is between peers. Taylor was top-down. That’s dictatorial, not collaboration. When you take collab out of the mix it’s a product manager and one dev and that’s a power imbalance.