[notatoad]

>In diseased tissue samples of people with chronic illnesses (IBD [6], Dementia [7], heart disease [8]), microplastic prevalence is significantly higher than healthy tissue.

this is very much not the same thing as "microplastics cause chronic illness", even though it's worded in a way that clearly wants to make you think that.

[pohl]

Does it need to be the same thing, though, before we consider actions the Precautionary Principle might point toward?

[tshaddox]

The precautionary principle is bad epistemology and shouldn’t be used to argue in opposition to anything. If we’re considering actions to ban or reduce microplastics it should be backed by a reasoned explanation for why we should do so.

[chemotaxis]

And where does it point toward? Other some untenable position such as "ban all plastics", which may very well produce more harm?

The discourse around microplastics is pretty wild. The sport is finding them in random places, often at parts-per-billion or parts-per-trillion levels that we don't really use to look for most other substances. And the implication is essentially "progress bad" or "consumerism bad". No clear evidence of human harm, no realistic policy prescriptions - so what do we expect to happen, exactly? This it not a case of corporate greed or deception.

Our bodies also contain a fair amount of sand. Probably at levels higher than parts-per-billion. Is it bad? Sometimes! Where does the precautionary principle lead us on that?

[atmavatar]

Make the plastic manufacturers own the external costs by requiring they fund proper disposal sites/messaging, if only to start making up for all the bullshit propaganda about recycling that's greatly exacerbated the problem.

[jagged-chisel]

While we're here, let's have them fund future treatment when we discover that illness has been caused by plastic.

[stinkbeetle]

> Make the plastic manufacturers own the external costs by requiring they fund proper disposal sites/messaging,

I think you fail to understand the reality of the problem.

In western countries, plastic "trash" is not really the problem. It's highly visible and it would always be nice to reduce it of course.

The majority of uncontained environmental microplastics comes from vehicle tires and clothing/textiles. Clothing and other textiles (e.g., carpets) being the biggest source, more than 1/3rd. After that it's probably building materials, paints, machinery and factory parts, etc.

Disposal sites and messaging will not do anything. You can be a perfectly compliant goodly consumer who dutifully puts their old clothes in the trash and pays the disposal fees for their old tires or rides busses. You'd still be contributing enormously to environmental microplastic load.

All natural fiber clothes, cycle everywhere, don't wear sneakers or other kind of plastic or synthetic rubber shoes, don't have synthetic carpets or drapes, don't paint your house, etc... now you're starting to get somewhere.

But the machinery required for you to stay alive, moving goods and services around, pumping your water, people going to work to keep your electricity on, package your food, etc... all still pumping out microplastics.

Disposal and messaging just won't cut it. And without a bunch of astounding and vanishingly unlikely breakthroughs, getting rid of microplastics from the top 4-5 sources will make net zero CO2 look like a walk in the park. Therefore we have to accept microplastics at enormous scale and work with that. Not to say we shouldn't attempt to reduce it where possible of course we should, but it won't be reduced to insignificant. So I think what needs to be done is well funded research into the effects of existing and new types of plastics, and into new materials and techniques for cleanup or containment. That way we have a chance to discover and limit or ban the worst of the worst before they can become too pervasive.

As far as reduction goes, possibly some small incentives to avoid plastics in consumer items (clothes, carpets, etc) might help. The messaging really can not be the same idiotic and counterproductive alarmism and blame and guilt campaigns led by wealthy private jet and mega yacht owning billionaires of the climate change debacle. Just gently make people aware they could look for natural fiber clothes, perhaps modest and commensurate added costs on plastics manufacturers to fund this research and containment, etc.

[GeekyBear]

Another source of microplastics in the human body is from food that was microwaved in a plastic container.

[stevula]

Why stop there? It’s in meat, water, mother’s milk, and newborns are even born with microplastics already in them.

[chilmers]

"Ban all plastics" is a strawman that will not happen and no mainstream opinion is suggesting. But there is a wide spectrum of possibilities between "ban all plastics" and "do nothing".

A principal concern is ingestion of microplastics via food packaging, utensils, cookware, etc. There are non-plastic substitutions available for many of these items, and a precautionary approach would be to regulate to require them, where it is economically feasible, until such time as the effects of microplastic ingestion are better understood.

[HPsquared]

Synthetic fibers are another. They're absolutely everywhere.

[mr_toad]

I don't think there's any more room for not considering underestimating the importance of beginning to start the process-of mulling over the conceptualisation of starting to worry.

And the time to do it is … very soon.

[IAmBroom]

I intellectually resolve to avoid disagreement with the philosophies your output indicates.

[boudin]

It's saying that there could be a link and a link has been found on mice. That and the fact that the human body is not supposed to be running partially on plastic should trigger some actions.

[mcswell]

Exactly the same argument could be (and unfortunately, has been) made about vaccines. For all we know, microplastics could be making us healthier. I don't believe that's true, and I'm avoiding plastic where I can, but the fact that we have it doesn't necessarily mean it's bad.

[boudin]

Not really. With vaccines you can have controlled groups (vaccinated or not) and study the benefits versus risks. This is done before any vaccine is introduced to the public, any vaccine showing not enough benefits versus risks is discarded.

We do not have this luxuary with plastic. Controlled groups are not possible, asking that risks inherent to micro-plastics in human body are proven is therefore impossible.

To compare back to vaccines, it would be like vaccinating very single human, with a vaccine which is not tested and which purpose is unknown. Then asking someone to scientifically prove that this vaccine causes health problems as a condition to stop systematically vaccinating every single human.

[quirkot]

it took me a minute to parse that sentence also. They are saying that health tissue makes up < 100% of the body, but that microplastics can be found in a full 100% of the body (healthy and non-healthy). Therefore microplastic prevalence > healthy tissue. It's saying that there is no part of the body that isn't impacted

[equinoxnemesis]

I think it's saying there's more microplastics in unhealthy than healthy tissue is all, your interpretation is technically possible but phrasing it that way would be so misleading as to basically be lying.

The reason more microplastics in unhealthy tissue doesn't necessarily mean microplastics cause unhealthy tissue is that unhealthy tissue would be worse at removing substances irrespective of whether the substances cause the harm.