[lm28469]

> This sounds like a modern version of Golden Age nostalgia.

When France built their nuclear programs, or railways, it was a massive investment, the people in charge when these decisions were taken were long gone by the time the projects were completed. It wasn't seen as a cost but as a national interest, now we're cutting everything down because everything is seen as a short term cost regardless of the long term benefits.

> I am not at all sure that people had longer visions; some probably did, but the entire nations? Not so sure.

Nations don't matter, the 10 or so people truly in charge do, when they have a spine at least, now that we have business men thinking about the next quarter it's more complicated.

> Second, there is a certain wisdom in accepting that you don't know how the world will look in 50+ years

History doesn't just happen... countries with long term visions make history, of course if you check out of the race you're at the mercy of whatever other people decide for you. China didn't automagically get where it is today, the planned economy helps in that regard.

[inglor_cz]

In Europe, we are in the middle of a very expensive and long term decarbonization push, an order of magnitude (if not two) more expensive that what France did. In fact, it is so expensive that the question if we can even pull it off is still open.

That does not seem to support your idea that "everything gets cut down over short term costs now". There is a massive amount of long term spending happening right now.

[lm28469]

Oh sure we do spend, on foreign tech, foreign factories, &c. That's not what I call long term vision, if anything it's the opposite. Germany was Putin's bitch because of gas, now the whole EU will be China's bitch for panels and batteries, amazing!

FYI: China produces >70% of windmills blades, solar panels and lithium batteries

What I meant by vision is securing the long term independence of your country through home grown technologies, for example France got cheap/clean electricity and nukes from their program. What you're describing is just the continuity of the lack of vision we had since the 70s, we outsourced everything to Asia and kept "services", which aren't worth much when shit hits the fan.

[jack_tripper]

>we outsourced everything to Asia and kept "services", which aren't worth much when shit hits the fan.

Don't worry, those "services" are now being outsourced too this time around.

What's left is stakeholders, scrum masters and managers to boss those offshore workers around while they use ChatGPT.

It's all a big comedy show and we are born just in time to get the front row seats.